Author Topic: Is it wrong to "trash" religion?  (Read 339 times)

Ant

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Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« on: January 20, 2003, 05:45:22 PM »
According to popular opinion (or at least what seems to be popular opinion) the worst, most evil, cruel, etc. thing a man can do is complain about religion, degrade religion, denounce the religious.  

Why is this so?  

There should be a reason for all things, so please explain to me the reason that makes religion bashing wrong.  

It is "ok" to bash government, to attack politicians, to complain about the evil upper class.  Why is it then forbidden to attack religion?  Simply because something is a "religion" it is believed to be good.  What if religion was the worlds downfall.  What if the problems of today are the result of christianty and islam?

How dare anyone say such a thing.  It should never even be considered is the belief of the majority.  But why not?

Do we hate reality?  Do you hate reality?  One must either hate reality or at least be scared of reality to refuse a criticism of religions.  Religion "creates"  a reality for people.  Refusal to criticize it is the equivalent of refusing to consider what is reality.  But afterall, it is indeed difficult to survive not knowing what reality is.  Just ask the insane, although they are an extreme.  Their reality is vastly different than ours, but we say they have a problem because of this.  The insane have a problem because they are out of touch with reality.  But religion may do the same.  Yet it is forbidden to consider this.  It is evil.  It is wrong.  It is blasphemy.  

I assert it is evil to do otherwise.  It is evil to run from reality.  To refuse reality and to force your created reality on others.   If the religious reality is the true reality it should stand strong when attacked yet it faulters and runs, and proclaims its criticizers evil.  


Is it wrong then to attack religious convictions?
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2003, 07:04:33 PM »
nothing ... just dont attack mine because i will reacted
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2003, 08:44:18 PM »
well Ant based on your wording, yes it is wrong

to many people, religion is the reason for their existence, it is more important to them than their families, their lives etc

so yes it is wrong to "trash" ones religion....however, criticizing the policies of the religion is alright if it is done with good intentions, in a meaningful discussion
« Last Edit: January 20, 2003, 08:44:53 PM by Tech Escobar »
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2003, 09:28:56 PM »
Because Religion to people that believe in it is a very sacred thing; it's the MOST important thing in their life, even above family.  It explains why they're here, it's the source of all the good things in the world to them, so of course if you criticise it, you're gonna be hated.  The thing that always blows my mind is, intellectuals think they're too smart for religion, or whatever, but yet aren't smart enough to leave it alone.  
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2003, 09:30:34 PM »

to many people, religion is the reason for their existence, it is more important to them than their families, their lives etc


That's crazy, it's almost word for word what I wrote without even reading your reply, lol.  
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2003, 09:42:58 PM »
^ thats cool, now if u stop being a dick maybe we can be cool..





lol im juss playin man
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2003, 09:45:04 PM »
Man, I wish you were a little older (really, I do) we'd get along fine if you were my age.  
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2003, 09:48:53 PM »
I wish you were Afghan, then you would know where Im coming from instead of remaining willfully ignorant, but you're not, so the current state of cold war remains


but on a side note, its pretty funny that you;re the only person on WCC who will piss me off in one thread resultin in conflict, but in another we're cool, just the way life is i guess.....

btw....how old are u Trauma?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2003, 09:50:02 PM by Tech Escobar »
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2003, 09:51:15 PM »
Yeah, I generally refuse to hold a grudge with anybody.  I might not agree with them in one thread, but I'm not gonna be a dick about it in another thread.  I'm 24.  
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2003, 09:59:57 PM »
ok dude....im 5 years younger....obviously u gonna think im immature....the same way i think sometimes u arent willing to listen and understand a postion cuz u not afghan/muslim...


anyways, im out, got homework to do (fuckin history course)
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2003, 10:04:14 PM »
^^ EXACTLY! That's what I'm sayin, i'm not doggin' you, I'm legit saying i wish you were older, that way we'd relate better.  Ain't your fault or nothing, lol.  
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2003, 03:54:34 AM »
its no more wrong to attack religion, then it is to attack those who arent religious. I attack religion at times, but thats because im sick of being told that im going to hell, and all that other bullshit that i dont even believe in. Views are views...and thats all religion is, a view. So my way of lookin at it is...my view is no better then theirs, their view is no better then mine. Im not necessarily right, and neither are they. But, just seems like most religious fanatics cant admit the possibility of them being wrong. Guess religion has managed to brainwash people so bad that they are no longer open-minded lol
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2003, 04:23:05 AM »
its no more wrong to attack religion, then it is to attack those who arent religious. I attack religion at times, but thats because im sick of being told that im going to hell, and all that other bullshit that i dont even believe in. Views are views...and thats all religion is, a view. So my way of lookin at it is...my view is no better then theirs, their view is no better then mine. Im not necessarily right, and neither are they. But, just seems like most religious fanatics cant admit the possibility of them being wrong. Guess religion has managed to brainwash people so bad that they are no longer open-minded lol

Word, Tone is right.  I really don't have a problem with people attacking my religion or others religions.  I mean, I'm sitting here saying that Islam is the greatest religion and way of life.. so therefore others like Tone have the right to say that it isn't, and offer something else in it's place.  I wiegh everything on it's own merit, I will respect your right to disagree so please respect my right to an opinion.

Besides, I feel that I can logically defend my religion and way of life.  So as Ant did in several threads, I will simply debate and respond back, and many can learn from that.  You didn't see me wine and complain when Ant made aurdous threads attacking my beliefs.  I simply responded back with whatever little knowledge I have learned in the past couple years as a Muslim.  
 

Ant

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2003, 05:56:06 AM »
At times it is in one's best interest to "leave religion alone" however the fact that one doesn't does not make them unintelligent or inferior to the believer.  A number of skeptics have influenced the thoughts of many because they didn't leave religion alone.  The average, person, myself perhaps gains nothing from criticizing the religious beliefs of others.  It is equally true that the common man gains nothing from criticizing the government, the corporation, their next door neighbor, etc. yet they still do.  

The difference between criticizing religion and government is simple.  Government is part of reality one can criticize that which they cannot change or choose to live with reality.  Religion creates reality.  This is why I said a person who is opposed to religious criticism is either hates reality, or is scared of it.  To criticize religion is to consider what is reality.  

It is often times not the aim of a skeptic to convert the believers.  It is usually their aim either to clarify their own beliefs, to save the not-yet-believers, or in some cases to wage war on the belief.  

Furthermore, in order to objectively criticize anything else you must remove yourself from religious convictions.  Criticism of any one or any government based upon untested religious convictions is unfair and unjust.  It is subjective and irrational.    Those who claim to be intelligent, make many decisions based on religoius convictions.  It is not the role of religion to decide whats good for society.  What's good for society should be judged by objective reasoning.  

In order to move forward, religion must first be criticized in order to see reality.  If it stands after the criticism it is reality.  It is difficult to criticize much else without first being able to see reality.  The problem is religion most likely cannot stand up to criticism it falls and its members either run and hide in their own ignorance or blow you up.


"Take away one belief and put a genuine reality in its place and the whole of religion crumbles to nothingness" FN





 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2003, 12:14:21 PM »
its no more wrong to attack religion, then it is to attack those who arent religious. I attack religion at times, but thats because im sick of being told that im going to hell, and all that other bullshit that i dont even believe in. Views are views...and thats all religion is, a view. So my way of lookin at it is...my view is no better then theirs, their view is no better then mine. Im not necessarily right, and neither are they. But, just seems like most religious fanatics cant admit the possibility of them being wrong. Guess religion has managed to brainwash people so bad that they are no longer open-minded lol

Who you been dealing with? LOL Most good religious people I know would never tell you you were going to hell because you're not religious, or criticise you because you're not religious.  Have I ever done that to you?  It's FAITH, your faith is you don't wanna be religious, that's exactly the same as my choice to be religious.  I'm not gonna hate on you just because you're not religious.  
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2003, 12:38:34 PM »
Whats my problem with religion is the close-mindedness that comes wit it for many religious ppl. They also refuse to accept that their religion is less than 100%  true and refuseto admit that religion is relly not the "divine word of god" at all, its just a bunch of stories meant to help u live righteously. But if they accept that, they'll know the basis for their beliefs are false and that defeats the whole purpose, LOL. But Hinduism iz da bomb, cuz its not as much a religion as it is a WAY OF LIVING...words of the wise. peace.
 

verbalassaulta

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2003, 02:20:20 PM »
hell no its not wrong to trash religion...anyone who cant form there own opinion on life, morals, ethics, judgements..etc etc, and has to constantly refer to a book that was written way before there time when there is no physicall, scientific or any kind of truth to it..leave themselves open to be trashed...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2003, 02:22:08 PM by verbalassaulta »
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2003, 02:51:17 PM »
Whats my problem with religion is the close-mindedness that comes wit it for many religious ppl. They also refuse to accept that their religion is less than 100%  true and refuseto admit that religion is relly not the "divine word of god" at all, its just a bunch of stories meant to help u live righteously. But if they accept that, they'll know the basis for their beliefs are false and that defeats the whole purpose, LOL. But Hinduism iz da bomb, cuz its not as much a religion as it is a WAY OF LIVING...words of the wise. peace.

Actually, you're very closed minded.  The only religons that are acceptable to you, are the ones where the people admit they're wrong? LOL So, in other words, they're close-minded, if they won't accept your opinion of the religion? You're just as bad as they are!
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2003, 02:51:47 PM »
hell no its not wrong to trash religion...anyone who cant form there own opinion on life, morals, ethics, judgements..etc etc, and has to constantly refer to a book that was written way before there time when there is no physicall, scientific or any kind of truth to it..leave themselves open to be trashed...

So, because they have a different opinion on a topic than you, you can trash them? That's not right.  
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2003, 03:06:49 PM »
It is wrong to "Trash" religion, and other peoples views.  There is noting wrong with asking questions about religion, debating views in an intellegent and mature manner.  But simply coming off trashing and insulting religon/God or views of other people is wrong and very ignorant, peace

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2003, 03:31:13 PM »
It is wrong to "Trash" religion, and other peoples views.  There is noting wrong with asking questions about religion, debating views in an intellegent and mature manner.  But simply coming off trashing and insulting religon/God or views of other people is wrong and very ignorant, peace

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Yeah, exactly.  I love when people ask questions about my religion, no matter what they are, because it gives me a chance to express my views on it.  I don't mind people saying "But wasn't the bible changed?" or "So yall used to have several wives?" or "How do we know the book of mormon wasn't just fake stories Joseph Smith wrote?" None of those bother me at all.  I'm talking about people just telling you you're stupid for being religious, or whatever.  Peace~
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2003, 04:54:15 PM »
Who you been dealing with? LOL Most good religious people I know would never tell you you were going to hell because you're not religious, or criticise you because you're not religious.  Have I ever done that to you?  It's FAITH, your faith is you don't wanna be religious, that's exactly the same as my choice to be religious.  I'm not gonna hate on you just because you're not religious.  

youre really gonna tell me that it isnt the Christian belief that non-believers will go to hell?

I dunno, i dont look down on any of the religious cats on here...as long as they accept my beliefs also. I dont agree with alot of the stuff that some religions say...buti dont think youre necessarily wrong for believin them either. Ive alwayz thought, whateva makes YOU a better person...u should do, whether it be religion...or whatever.
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2003, 09:18:19 PM »
I'm a christian, and I don't think you go to hell for not being a christian.  Does that answer your question?
 

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2003, 09:34:23 PM »
I'm a christian, and I don't think you go to hell for not being a christian.  Does that answer your question?

Trauma, could you briefly explain what the Church of Latter Day Saints believe about life after death for nonbelievers such as Muslims?  Because.... other sections of Christianity have always taught that you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior to be "saved" and go to heaven.
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Is it wrong to "trash" religion?
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2003, 09:38:48 PM »
Sure.  Latter Day Saints believe that after you die, souls arrive at a sort of spirit world, where they are ministered to, etc. by representatives of Christ (Adam, Peter, Paul, Moses, etc) all the great missionaries of all time.  On the other side, there won't be the veil that covers us here on earth, we'll all realize Christ's importance, etc. and you will still have the opportunity to become a christian after you've died.  

In other words, being a muslim or a member of another religion while on earth doesn't automatically sentence you to hell, or make me or other members any better than you.


The Lord is more interested in your righteousness than he is in whether you sniffed out the right religion while on earth.