Author Topic: Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)  (Read 178 times)

Damon X from ATL

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Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« on: January 23, 2003, 05:10:09 PM »
The Bible on marriage of young girls with much older men
As it is Christian evangelists and other believers in the Bible who have been bitterly reviling the Holy Prophet Muhammad on account of his marriage with Aisha, we put to them the practices of the great patriarchs and prophets that are recorded in the Bible itself in this connection. The main accusations regarding the marriage of Aisha are that she was too young in age while the Holy Prophet was a much older man, being fifty years of age, and that consent to marriage was either not obtained from her or she was not capable of giving it.

Abraham
In the book of Genesis in the Bible it is recorded about Abraham:

“Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; so she said to Abram, ‘The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her.’ Abram agreed to what Sarai said. So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. He slept with Hagar, and she conceived. … So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.” (Genesis, chapter 16, verses 1–4, and 15–16, New International Version. Bolding is mine.)

Firstly, it is evident that as Abraham (who then had the name Abram) was 86 years old, Hagar must have been some fifty years younger than him, and probably even younger, to bear a child. Secondly, the Bible speaks of Sarai giving her maidservant Hagar to Abraham. So Hagar’s consent was not obtained but rather she was commanded by Sarai to go and become Abraham’s wife.

David
The first book of Kings in the Bible begins as follows:

“When King David was old and well advanced in years, he could not keep warm even when they put covers over him. So his servants said to him, ‘Let us look for a young virgin to attend the king and take care of him. She can lie beside him so that our lord the king may keep warm.’ Then they searched throughout Israel for a beautiful girl and found Abishag, a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. The girl was very beautiful; she took care of the king and waited on him, but the king had no intimate relations with her.” (1 Kings, chapter 1, verses 1–4, New International Version. Bolding is mine.)

So there seems nothing wrong, according to the Bible, in procuring a young virgin, again apparently without her consent, whose duties include lying with the elderly king in bed. The intention was certainly for sexual enjoyment, otherwise there was no necessity of looking for a young, beautiful virgin. A much older woman, perhaps a widow, could have performed all these duties, including lying with the king to keep him warm.

Mary and Joseph
The most famous marriage in Christianity is no doubt that of Mary, Jesus’ mother, with Joseph. While the following details are not in the canonical Gospels in the Bible, it appears from other early Christian writings (known as apocryphal writings) that Mary was twelve years old when the temple elders decided to find a husband for her. They selected the husband by drawing lots, and Joseph whom they chose was an elderly man, being according to some accounts ninety years old. The husband was selected and Mary was handed over to him, and she played no part in his selection.

These accounts are summed up in the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913 edition, which is available online, as follows:

“It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph’s marriage contained in the apocryphal writings. When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children … A year after his wife’s death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph …” [13] (Bolding is mine.)

Although these apocryphal accounts are not now accepted by many Christians, and the Catholic Encyclopedia says that they “are void of authority”, yet it also speaks of their influence as follows:

“they nevertheless acquired in the course of ages some popularity; in them some ecclesiastical writers sought the answer to the well-known difficulty arising from the mention in the Gospel of the Lord’s brothers; from them also popular credulity has, contrary to all probability, as well as to the tradition witnessed by old works of art, retained the belief that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the Mother of God.”

However, these accounts are accepted by the Eastern churches. The website of the Ukrainian Orthodoxy has an article on this subject entitled An Elderly Joseph which agrees with the presentation in the apocryphal writings “of Joseph as an elderly man, a widower with adult children”. It concludes:

“The Christian East’s picture of Joseph as a courageous, faithful, God-centred elderly widower rings true.” [14]

While the Western Christian churches may not accept these accounts as authentic, the Eastern churches in Europe do accept that Mary was 12 years old and Joseph a widower 90 years old when they married. Moreover, there is nothing in the Gospels of the New Testament to contradict these accounts, and the Gospel stories are not at all inconsistent with these ages for Mary and Joseph.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2003, 05:12:28 PM by Damon X from ATL »
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Damon X from ATL

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2003, 05:11:01 PM »
The Infancy Gospel of James, Chapter 8 verse 2 to Chapter 9 verse 11

“When she [Mary] turned twelve, a group of priests took counsel together, saying, ‘Look, Mary has been in the temple of the Lord twelve years. What should we do about her now, so that she does not defile the sanctuary of the Lord our God?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You have stood at the altar of the Lord. Go in and pray about her. And if the Lord God reveals anything to you, we will do it.’  And the priest went in taking the vestment with twelve bells into the holy of holies and prayed about her. Suddenly, an angel of the Lord stood before him, saying, ‘Zachariah, Zachariah, depart from here and gather the widowers of the people and let each one carry a staff. And the one whom the Lord God points out with a sign, she will be his wife.’ So the heralds went out to the whole surrounding area of Judea and the trumpet of the Lord rang out and all the men rushed in.

Throwing down his axe, Joseph went out to meet them. And after they had gathered together with their rods, they went to the high priest. After receiving everyone’s rod, the high priest went into the temple and prayed. When he was finished with the prayer, he took the rods and went out and gave them to each man, but there was no sign among them. Finally, Joseph took his rod. Suddenly, a dove came out of the rod and stood on Joseph’s head. And the high priest said, ‘Joseph! Joseph! You have been chosen by lot to take the virgin into your own keeping.’  And Joseph replied, saying, ‘I have sons and am old, while she is young. I will not be ridiculed among the children of Israel.’  And the high priest said, ‘Joseph, fear the Lord your God and remember what God did to Dathan and Abiron and Kore, how the earth split open and swallowed them because of their rebellion. Now fear God, Joseph, so that these things do not happen in your house.’  Fearing God, Joseph took her into his own possession.”

— Translation by Shelly Matthews
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Trauma-san

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2003, 08:36:06 PM »
There's a big difference between 12 and 9.  Also, the other two you mentioned have no age attributed to them, making it a useless argument.  Furthermore, Mary, by ALL christian beliefs, was a virgin when she had Jesus, which even FURTHER shows that she wasn't young of age when she 'slept' with Joseph; some people feel she never even did (catholics).  On top of all that, the evidence you present for her being 12 isn't even part of christian doctrine.


In other words, no christian doctrine shows young girls being married.  Some Islam doctrine does.  
 

Tha_Reverend

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2003, 09:50:41 PM »
yup.  what trauma said.


and stop trying to turn the tables around.  


tree trunk out
« Last Edit: January 23, 2003, 09:51:18 PM by Tree Trunk Hoe Slappa »
 

M Dogg™

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2003, 10:00:43 PM »
She was 16. Can break out the words, but I don't feel like it, but she was 16, Joseph was very old though. I'm catholic, so I do believe Mary was a Virgin, even when she assented into Heaven.
 

CWalker187

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2003, 10:01:32 PM »
Overseer....ban this anti-Christian bigot.
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2003, 10:02:28 PM »
LOL
 

M Dogg™

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2003, 10:04:47 PM »
Overseer....ban this anti-Christian bigot.

LOL... you did the same with the Muslims. Whatever dogg, somethings we should never mess with, because others take it to heart, espcially ones belief.
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2003, 11:59:24 PM »
LOL @ Damon X dissing christianity
lol @ trauma dissing islam
lol @ c walker cuz hes a fuckin idiot
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Trauma-san

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2003, 12:11:25 AM »
When did I diss islam?
 

ontherise

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Re:Are Are These Christians Pedophiles? (double standards)
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2003, 01:22:15 AM »
about thae first story with abraham well if you have read that whole story you would now that abraham was diobeying god when he slept with hagar that why god punished him and theres war between his children and his children's children with are the jews and the isrealist. now about the second story of david you went there that to me sound like a job like we would consider it nursing now a days so she probable got paid for it very well and the fact of the matter is he never took her so no aguments there. now on to the third story about mary well i'm not catholic and we really don't have the same veiw on the bible so i couldn't comment on that but from what from read the bible mary did consent to her marraige with joseph in fact she begged him to mary her because she was with child and had no father for the child. Now beginning a christain with muslim freinds i kindof don't understand where this aguement started from cause as my personal belief that the bible doesn't state what age you have to be to get married it does state that you should not enter into a sexual act out of marriage. and marriages have been arrange in the bible since the beginning so i have no problem in believein that god doesn't have a problem with young women get married that why women become able to bear children so young why that was alot but if that clears up any agument about the bible coo'