Author Topic: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"  (Read 2631 times)

Sccit

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2016, 01:17:48 PM »
^You are doing what the industry does, downplays actually making music. So what if they use fruity loops? I do, didn't you want to do business with me? I'm tired of these gatekeepers who starving artist have to go to and give them a piece in order to get on. I'm done playing with them.


i got nothing against fruity loops or your beats, dont take it that way.....ive used fruity loops in my day and came up wit magic. but what im sayin is that, what dre does, takes a whole lot more than what your typical beatmaker does. bottom line.


if dre took one of your beats and produced it, you'd hear the difference and never want to make beats again, because only then will you understand that you never even came close to realizing the potential of your music........thats just what a production genius can do.
You can say that about anyone though. Anyone can take someone's beats and make changes to it and do something that the person who made it wasn't thinking about. That's why people often work in pairs and in groups. If the beat is a hit from the gate then it's a hit. This is the order of importance of a song and anyone in the business with tell you the same. Beat, Hook and then vocals. To say that someone is 'just a beat maker' is a lie of the industry designed to prop up 'super producers' and put them in a place to reign over others.

Also, I don't know if you think I'm trying to take anything away from Dre I'm not. All I'm saying is that most fans think he made the beats to alot of tracks where he actually just did what you said above. I even thought he made the beat to Still Dre until a few months ago when Scott Storch did a interview and took credit for it. People think the same about everything that came out on Death Row, that Dre did all the beats. Even Yella was doing alot to help with the beats back at Ruthless I'm just now finding out because he did promo for the movie.


bruh, i dont think u get what dre does...he doesnt just take a beat and makes a few minor adjustments. he recreates the entire beat to where he's 90% responsible for the final sound, where as the person who came up wit the beat idea is about 10% responsible. see the example above, you can hear it better than i can tell you.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2016, 02:31:41 PM »
I honestly believe people are just trying to take Credit for Dres work because everyone back then has forgotten what really happen, trying to rewrite history. I'm not saying Dr. Dre doesn't get additional input, but the final product is what he approves of, regardless of it being a loop, a horn, lyrics, nothing stays on that track without his approval.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2016, 06:40:03 PM »
Apparently Dre is doing something right, because when his name is attached it comes out fire, and then when he leaves the building guys like Daz, Mel-Man, Yella, Sam Sneed, J-Flexx and whoever else suddenly just ain't making shit bang like it did before.

Look no further than Daz's career since leaving Death Row compared to Dre's career since leaving Death Row.   Who is honestly going to believe it was Daz that was the true genius?  I mean, I love Daz and consider him a legend, but Daz owes a lot to Dre.


yella was still a beast after dre left ruthless tbh bro.
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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2016, 06:54:28 PM »
I honestly believe people are just trying to take Credit for Dres work because everyone back then has forgotten what really happen, trying to rewrite history. I'm not saying Dr. Dre doesn't get additional input, but the final product is what he approves of, regardless of it being a loop, a horn, lyrics, nothing stays on that track without his approval.
How so when it's common knowledge that he wasn't do that much work during the period n question, Daz and others have said that they gave Dre credit for their work and Dre has always had help? I look at Dre production as a brand. He make get the creid but chances are it's a team of people helping to craft the sound. Again before I get attacked, that not taking anything away from him. There's nothing wrong with it.
^You are doing what the industry does, downplays actually making music. So what if they use fruity loops? I do, didn't you want to do business with me? I'm tired of these gatekeepers who starving artist have to go to and give them a piece in order to get on. I'm done playing with them.


i got nothing against fruity loops or your beats, dont take it that way.....ive used fruity loops in my day and came up wit magic. but what im sayin is that, what dre does, takes a whole lot more than what your typical beatmaker does. bottom line.


if dre took one of your beats and produced it, you'd hear the difference and never want to make beats again, because only then will you understand that you never even came close to realizing the potential of your music........thats just what a production genius can do.
You can say that about anyone though. Anyone can take someone's beats and make changes to it and do something that the person who made it wasn't thinking about. That's why people often work in pairs and in groups. If the beat is a hit from the gate then it's a hit. This is the order of importance of a song and anyone in the business with tell you the same. Beat, Hook and then vocals. To say that someone is 'just a beat maker' is a lie of the industry designed to prop up 'super producers' and put them in a place to reign over others.

Also, I don't know if you think I'm trying to take anything away from Dre I'm not. All I'm saying is that most fans think he made the beats to alot of tracks where he actually just did what you said above. I even thought he made the beat to Still Dre until a few months ago when Scott Storch did a interview and took credit for it. People think the same about everything that came out on Death Row, that Dre did all the beats. Even Yella was doing alot to help with the beats back at Ruthless I'm just now finding out because he did promo for the movie.


bruh, i dont think u get what dre does...he doesnt just take a beat and makes a few minor adjustments. he recreates the entire beat to where he's 90% responsible for the final sound, where as the person who came up wit the beat idea is about 10% responsible. see the example above, you can hear it better than i can tell you.
That doesn't mean that he puts that much work into every track he gets.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ</a>
11:25 mark on
and then
14:20 mark on
 

Sccit

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2016, 08:22:13 PM »
I honestly believe people are just trying to take Credit for Dres work because everyone back then has forgotten what really happen, trying to rewrite history. I'm not saying Dr. Dre doesn't get additional input, but the final product is what he approves of, regardless of it being a loop, a horn, lyrics, nothing stays on that track without his approval.
How so when it's common knowledge that he wasn't do that much work during the period n question, Daz and others have said that they gave Dre credit for their work and Dre has always had help? I look at Dre production as a brand. He make get the creid but chances are it's a team of people helping to craft the sound. Again before I get attacked, that not taking anything away from him. There's nothing wrong with it.
^You are doing what the industry does, downplays actually making music. So what if they use fruity loops? I do, didn't you want to do business with me? I'm tired of these gatekeepers who starving artist have to go to and give them a piece in order to get on. I'm done playing with them.


i got nothing against fruity loops or your beats, dont take it that way.....ive used fruity loops in my day and came up wit magic. but what im sayin is that, what dre does, takes a whole lot more than what your typical beatmaker does. bottom line.


if dre took one of your beats and produced it, you'd hear the difference and never want to make beats again, because only then will you understand that you never even came close to realizing the potential of your music........thats just what a production genius can do.
You can say that about anyone though. Anyone can take someone's beats and make changes to it and do something that the person who made it wasn't thinking about. That's why people often work in pairs and in groups. If the beat is a hit from the gate then it's a hit. This is the order of importance of a song and anyone in the business with tell you the same. Beat, Hook and then vocals. To say that someone is 'just a beat maker' is a lie of the industry designed to prop up 'super producers' and put them in a place to reign over others.

Also, I don't know if you think I'm trying to take anything away from Dre I'm not. All I'm saying is that most fans think he made the beats to alot of tracks where he actually just did what you said above. I even thought he made the beat to Still Dre until a few months ago when Scott Storch did a interview and took credit for it. People think the same about everything that came out on Death Row, that Dre did all the beats. Even Yella was doing alot to help with the beats back at Ruthless I'm just now finding out because he did promo for the movie.


bruh, i dont think u get what dre does...he doesnt just take a beat and makes a few minor adjustments. he recreates the entire beat to where he's 90% responsible for the final sound, where as the person who came up wit the beat idea is about 10% responsible. see the example above, you can hear it better than i can tell you.
That doesn't mean that he puts that much work into every track he gets.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ</a>
11:25 mark on
and then
14:20 mark on


He played the keys on the track, exactly my point .. Session player, not producer. We know what a Scott storch beat sounds like witout Dre n it's not even close.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2016, 06:40:00 PM »
What about the tracks Dre helped with but didn't get credit, like co-producing What Would U Do?

Anyone know the rest?


OH, YOU MEAN THE ENTIRE DOGG FOOD ALBUM?

At the very least, Dre mixed the record I believe.

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2016, 08:41:20 PM »
What about the tracks Dre helped with but didn't get credit, like co-producing What Would U Do?

Anyone know the rest?


OH, YOU MEAN THE ENTIRE DOGG FOOD ALBUM?

At the very least, Dre mixed the record I believe.
The rumor is he ghost produced that, so it's sorta ironic the Dogg pounds own album were they actually got credit and didn't do as well (In comparison to the previous albums The Chronic/Doggystyle) is suddenly rumored to be ghost produced by Dr. Dre, and the thing is I've never heard dre try and claim that album, but Daz keeps trying to claim partial credit for The Chronic/Doggystlyle. IMO I think he's either remembering it wrong or trying to rewrite history.


Sorta like how Jerry Heller constantly says he knew "Boyz N The Hood" was going to be important amazing record, when in reality, he had no idea it was going to actually blow up, nor how to market it.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2016, 11:20:39 PM »
Dre definitely produced at least half of Dogg Food, snoop confirmed it..they were tryna bill daz as the next big producer on death row, so Dre only took mixing credit, although a lot of it is signature Dre to a T.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2016, 06:14:38 AM »
I honestly believe people are just trying to take Credit for Dres work because everyone back then has forgotten what really happen, trying to rewrite history. I'm not saying Dr. Dre doesn't get additional input, but the final product is what he approves of, regardless of it being a loop, a horn, lyrics, nothing stays on that track without his approval.
How so when it's common knowledge that he wasn't do that much work during the period n question, Daz and others have said that they gave Dre credit for their work and Dre has always had help? I look at Dre production as a brand. He make get the creid but chances are it's a team of people helping to craft the sound. Again before I get attacked, that not taking anything away from him. There's nothing wrong with it.
^You are doing what the industry does, downplays actually making music. So what if they use fruity loops? I do, didn't you want to do business with me? I'm tired of these gatekeepers who starving artist have to go to and give them a piece in order to get on. I'm done playing with them.


i got nothing against fruity loops or your beats, dont take it that way.....ive used fruity loops in my day and came up wit magic. but what im sayin is that, what dre does, takes a whole lot more than what your typical beatmaker does. bottom line.


if dre took one of your beats and produced it, you'd hear the difference and never want to make beats again, because only then will you understand that you never even came close to realizing the potential of your music........thats just what a production genius can do.
You can say that about anyone though. Anyone can take someone's beats and make changes to it and do something that the person who made it wasn't thinking about. That's why people often work in pairs and in groups. If the beat is a hit from the gate then it's a hit. This is the order of importance of a song and anyone in the business with tell you the same. Beat, Hook and then vocals. To say that someone is 'just a beat maker' is a lie of the industry designed to prop up 'super producers' and put them in a place to reign over others.

Also, I don't know if you think I'm trying to take anything away from Dre I'm not. All I'm saying is that most fans think he made the beats to alot of tracks where he actually just did what you said above. I even thought he made the beat to Still Dre until a few months ago when Scott Storch did a interview and took credit for it. People think the same about everything that came out on Death Row, that Dre did all the beats. Even Yella was doing alot to help with the beats back at Ruthless I'm just now finding out because he did promo for the movie.


bruh, i dont think u get what dre does...he doesnt just take a beat and makes a few minor adjustments. he recreates the entire beat to where he's 90% responsible for the final sound, where as the person who came up wit the beat idea is about 10% responsible. see the example above, you can hear it better than i can tell you.
That doesn't mean that he puts that much work into every track he gets.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ</a>
11:25 mark on
and then
14:20 mark on


He played the keys on the track, exactly my point .. Session player, not producer. We know what a Scott storch beat sounds like witout Dre n it's not even close.
He played the keys, who played the bass, who did the drums etc. The question here is who made the beats, not who produced them. Also if you watch the video he says that him and Dre created that sound and then he goes on to say that he backed away from the sound basically giving it to Dre. Obviously if they helped create the sound together you wouldn't know who's sound it was. The same way I and the person who conducted the interview didn't know who's keys that song was. Anytime you hear that sound you just assume it's Dre just like Scott says.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2016, 12:47:55 PM »
I honestly believe people are just trying to take Credit for Dres work because everyone back then has forgotten what really happen, trying to rewrite history. I'm not saying Dr. Dre doesn't get additional input, but the final product is what he approves of, regardless of it being a loop, a horn, lyrics, nothing stays on that track without his approval.
How so when it's common knowledge that he wasn't do that much work during the period n question, Daz and others have said that they gave Dre credit for their work and Dre has always had help? I look at Dre production as a brand. He make get the creid but chances are it's a team of people helping to craft the sound. Again before I get attacked, that not taking anything away from him. There's nothing wrong with it.
^You are doing what the industry does, downplays actually making music. So what if they use fruity loops? I do, didn't you want to do business with me? I'm tired of these gatekeepers who starving artist have to go to and give them a piece in order to get on. I'm done playing with them.


i got nothing against fruity loops or your beats, dont take it that way.....ive used fruity loops in my day and came up wit magic. but what im sayin is that, what dre does, takes a whole lot more than what your typical beatmaker does. bottom line.


if dre took one of your beats and produced it, you'd hear the difference and never want to make beats again, because only then will you understand that you never even came close to realizing the potential of your music........thats just what a production genius can do.
You can say that about anyone though. Anyone can take someone's beats and make changes to it and do something that the person who made it wasn't thinking about. That's why people often work in pairs and in groups. If the beat is a hit from the gate then it's a hit. This is the order of importance of a song and anyone in the business with tell you the same. Beat, Hook and then vocals. To say that someone is 'just a beat maker' is a lie of the industry designed to prop up 'super producers' and put them in a place to reign over others.

Also, I don't know if you think I'm trying to take anything away from Dre I'm not. All I'm saying is that most fans think he made the beats to alot of tracks where he actually just did what you said above. I even thought he made the beat to Still Dre until a few months ago when Scott Storch did a interview and took credit for it. People think the same about everything that came out on Death Row, that Dre did all the beats. Even Yella was doing alot to help with the beats back at Ruthless I'm just now finding out because he did promo for the movie.


bruh, i dont think u get what dre does...he doesnt just take a beat and makes a few minor adjustments. he recreates the entire beat to where he's 90% responsible for the final sound, where as the person who came up wit the beat idea is about 10% responsible. see the example above, you can hear it better than i can tell you.
That doesn't mean that he puts that much work into every track he gets.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MCsKiDtsEAQ</a>
11:25 mark on
and then
14:20 mark on


He played the keys on the track, exactly my point .. Session player, not producer. We know what a Scott storch beat sounds like witout Dre n it's not even close.
He played the keys, who played the bass, who did the drums etc. The question here is who made the beats, not who produced them. Also if you watch the video he says that him and Dre created that sound and then he goes on to say that he backed away from the sound basically giving it to Dre. Obviously if they helped create the sound together you wouldn't know who's sound it was. The same way I and the person who conducted the interview didn't know who's keys that song was. Anytime you hear that sound you just assume it's Dre just like Scott says.



it's like a coach who has assistant coaches.....at the end of the day, it all falls on the head coach. thats the man in charge and the man mainly responsible for the final outcome. you can bet your bottom dollar that dre's genius goes far beyond mr. storch's
 

TidyKris

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2016, 06:11:02 PM »
Dre is a "enhancer"...the end.


People are going to worship Dre no matter what...if it came out that his only involvement
was making the drinks in the studio then people are going to say that is the most important part of producing.
This topic is one that will go on forever..

« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 06:13:23 PM by TidyKris »
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2016, 06:50:43 PM »
Dre is a "enhancer"...the end.


People are going to worship Dre no matter what...if it came out that his only involvement
was making the drinks in the studio then people are going to say that is the most important part of producing.
This topic is one that will go on forever..




The engineer is an "enhancer" .. To put that kinda label on Dre is completely disrespectful, undermines his body of work, and is just flat out retarded.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2016, 10:39:15 AM »
Dre is a "enhancer"...the end.


People are going to worship Dre no matter what...if it came out that his only involvement
was making the drinks in the studio then people are going to say that is the most important part of producing.
This topic is one that will go on forever..




The engineer is an "enhancer" .. To put that kinda label on Dre is completely disrespectful, undermines his body of work, and is just flat out retarded.

No it is not at all...Dre enhances beats, people make the basis of the beats and Dre enhances it beat to make it better...whats retarded about that?
Thats exactly what he does.

An engineer will enhance the sounds...not the beat itself. Standard engineers dont have any writing or producing credits.

But again i go back to my comment about Dre being god to some people and anything said against him that is not agreed with warrents crucifixion lol

An just for the record...i am not dissing Dre at all here. I really like Dre

 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2016, 11:09:09 AM »
because he doesnt "enhance" beats...and to think of it like that is pretty ignorant. dre selects, arranges, directs, and is the main man in charge of the entire process of creating a track, from inception to completion......for example, check the videos jaytee posted. dre completely recreated the beat and made it his own....is the basis the same? sure.. but it's a completely different finished product. it's not an "enhancement"........to say that completely undermines what he does n is frankly inaccurate fam.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2016, 11:16:49 AM »
Those who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T.

The boy can do it in his sleep.

Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2016, 12:01:19 PM »
because he doesnt "enhance" beats...and to think of it like that is pretty ignorant. dre selects, arranges, directs, and is the main man in charge of the entire process of creating a track, from inception to completion......for example, check the videos jaytee posted. dre completely recreated the beat and made it his own....is the basis the same? sure.. but it's a completely different finished product. it's not an "enhancement"........to say that completely undermines what he does n is frankly inaccurate fam.

I never said he doesnt make beats or anything like that....we are talking about the claim that other producers have made the basis of the beats.
Like the producers he worked with...one may bring the samples, the other may write the melody..then Dre enhances it by turning it into a dope beat.

Enhancement doesnt just mean one thing, it can mean lots of things...to increase something, improve something,  strengthen something, build up something the list goes on.
An thats what he does...i dont see the problem here


Enhancement doesnt just mean to make a track sound better "sound wise" 
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2016, 12:49:58 PM »
because he doesnt "enhance" beats...and to think of it like that is pretty ignorant. dre selects, arranges, directs, and is the main man in charge of the entire process of creating a track, from inception to completion......for example, check the videos jaytee posted. dre completely recreated the beat and made it his own....is the basis the same? sure.. but it's a completely different finished product. it's not an "enhancement"........to say that completely undermines what he does n is frankly inaccurate fam.

I never said he doesnt make beats or anything like that....we are talking about the claim that other producers have made the basis of the beats.
Like the producers he worked with...one may bring the samples, the other may write the melody..then Dre enhances it by turning it into a dope beat.

Enhancement doesnt just mean one thing, it can mean lots of things...to increase something, improve something,  strengthen something, build up something the list goes on.
An thats what he does...i dont see the problem here


Enhancement doesnt just mean to make a track sound better "sound wise" 


But enhancement signifies that he just polishes what's already complete, when that's just not the case .. For instance, Khalil said "Kush" was a completely different beat before Dre got his hands on it. His work is far more extensive than simply just enhancing. 
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2016, 12:56:58 PM »
Those who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T.

The boy can do it in his sleep.

Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have.
If you go and read the person who made this thread's first two post he is clearly talking about Dre getting credit for beats he didn't make. For some reason you guys want to ignore the very premise of this thread and start talking about overall song production. If Dre or anyone else in the industry is taking credit for beats they didn't do there is nothing wrong with discussing that. Whether it was done legally or illegally. If you want to discuss the broader issue of song production versus beat production then at least put it in its proper context of this discussion. It has been said that Daz had signed off on some tracks and Dre got the credit for it, why is it wrong to point that out or question what other beats he may not have created that was attributed to him? What I'm seeing here is the same thing I see in Train of Thought, some of you guys don't want to know the truth.

So no, I don't know what beats Dre has done on his own and despite the back and forth none of us do. To say that a beat sounds like Dre doesn't really mean anything. You can go to youtube now and see a million types of beats that beat producers make that sound just like some other beat producer. The fact that Dre has always had someone with him from the Straight Outta Compton days, the drastic change in sound from the first to the second NWA album and other examples I listed in my previous post makes me wonder exactly what his role is in creating beats.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2016, 03:02:22 PM »
Those who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T.

The boy can do it in his sleep.

Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have.


,
If you go and read the person who made this thread's first two post he is clearly talking about Dre getting credit for beats he didn't make. For some reason you guys want to ignore the very premise of this thread and start talking about overall song production. If Dre or anyone else in the industry is taking credit for beats they didn't do there is nothing wrong with discussing that. Whether it was done legally or illegally. If you want to discuss the broader issue of song production versus beat production then at least put it in its proper context of this discussion. It has been said that Daz had signed off on some tracks and Dre got the credit for it, why is it wrong to point that out or question what other beats he may not have created that was attributed to him? What I'm seeing here is the same thing I see in Train of Thought, some of you guys don't want to know the truth.

So no, I don't know what beats Dre has done on his own and despite the back and forth none of us do. To say that a beat sounds like Dre doesn't really mean anything. You can go to youtube now and see a million types of beats that beat producers make that sound just like some other beat producer. The fact that Dre has always had someone with him from the Straight Outta Compton days, the drastic change in sound from the first to the second NWA album and other examples I listed in my previous post makes me wonder exactly what his role is in creating beats.

There was never a drastic change in dre's sound, but rather a natural evolution and progression in style.. But it all connects, if u listen to each album one after the other, you can hear the growth
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2016, 06:20:40 PM »
Those who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T.

The boy can do it in his sleep.

Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have.


,
If you go and read the person who made this thread's first two post he is clearly talking about Dre getting credit for beats he didn't make. For some reason you guys want to ignore the very premise of this thread and start talking about overall song production. If Dre or anyone else in the industry is taking credit for beats they didn't do there is nothing wrong with discussing that. Whether it was done legally or illegally. If you want to discuss the broader issue of song production versus beat production then at least put it in its proper context of this discussion. It has been said that Daz had signed off on some tracks and Dre got the credit for it, why is it wrong to point that out or question what other beats he may not have created that was attributed to him? What I'm seeing here is the same thing I see in Train of Thought, some of you guys don't want to know the truth.

So no, I don't know what beats Dre has done on his own and despite the back and forth none of us do. To say that a beat sounds like Dre doesn't really mean anything. You can go to youtube now and see a million types of beats that beat producers make that sound just like some other beat producer. The fact that Dre has always had someone with him from the Straight Outta Compton days, the drastic change in sound from the first to the second NWA album and other examples I listed in my previous post makes me wonder exactly what his role is in creating beats.

There was never a drastic change in dre's sound, but rather a natural evolution and progression in style.. But it all connects, if u listen to each album one after the other, you can hear the growth
There is a huge difference between Straight/100 and NFL. NFL has the g-funk sound, which Big Hutch is credited with creating. To say that there is a nature progression is to give Dre credit for creating the sound he didn't. As if somehow he would have naturally created that sound anyway.
 

bouli77

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2016, 07:27:29 PM »
the sound of NFL which would later be polished and improved on The Chronic & Doggystyle is also due to the fact that it's when Dre started working extensively with Colin Wolfe, who was a seasoned musician. Wolfe's interview which surfaced a few years ago is very insightful about it.

I think the main problem was that at the end of the day, when the song said produced by Dre, with nothing else on it left a lot of the contributors pissed and like Dre was taking full credit for their work. Some were cool with it and thought it was part of a learning experience, some were pissed cause they thought they were the producer because they had worked on the song, and some were just disappointed to see them not credited and not compensated for it.

The money aspect comes into play as well, because Death Row (and many other labels for that matter) were very shady when it comes to publishing rights and producing credits, and it wasn't so much Dre's responsibility as it was Suge's. Like for Who Got Some Gangsta Shit, Suge only wanted to credit Snoop for producing the song, and Snoop intervened and got Soopafly to be credited. Soopafly also co-produced every Daz produced song on AEOM but wasn't credited for it and was only paid by Daz, not the label. In an interview, one producer (can't seem to remember who, maybe Chris "The Glove" Taylor) said that he went to Dre to say that he hadn't been paid and credited and Dre told him he wasn't responsible for him, that Suge was taking care of it.

In my opinion, the controversy stems from 1) some of these people's ego : they think they produced a song without realizing and at first understanding the concept (Daz, Warren G) 2) Dre's lack of communication with his collaborators which made it all seem shady for them (see the Glove's interview about his on and off working relationship with Dre on Ruthless, Death Row and Aftermath) 3) the lack of a just system of financial compensation

Throughout the years, you heard Daz, Warren G and Big Hutch venting their frustration and other people like The Glove and Colin Wolfe going into detail how Dre worked with him.

It seems to me the main problem was the lack of details in the credits, even though The Chronic's booklet is somehow detailed, they needed a song by song breakdown of who did what exactly and precisely ala RR&GB where they mentioned the keyboards by Daz & Soopafly, the percussion by Carl Butch Smalls and the guitar by Ricky Rouse or Shorty B or whoever... If Death Row had done that consistently (they did, at times, like when they said Afro Puffs was produced by Dre & Daz), I doubt such controversy would have arisen. But then again, it wasn't necessarily in their interest to do that.

at the end of the day, I think the people that brag the least about being involved on The Chronic and Doggystyle and getting shit done, namely Chris The Glove and Colin Wolfe (Colin Wolfe wasn't involved in the making of Doggystyle) are the ones who were really responsible for most of the magic along with Dre, I love Daz & Warren G, but between rookie beat makers and seasoned producers and session musicians I think the latter are more likely to produce greatness. The Glove is still criminally underrated despite having his hands on a lot of classic records and lesser known genuinely good music over the years, while Daz has a lot of conspiracy theorists thinking he was the mastermind behind The Chronic & Doggystyle, lol.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2016, 07:31:50 PM »
Those who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T.

The boy can do it in his sleep.

Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have.


,
If you go and read the person who made this thread's first two post he is clearly talking about Dre getting credit for beats he didn't make. For some reason you guys want to ignore the very premise of this thread and start talking about overall song production. If Dre or anyone else in the industry is taking credit for beats they didn't do there is nothing wrong with discussing that. Whether it was done legally or illegally. If you want to discuss the broader issue of song production versus beat production then at least put it in its proper context of this discussion. It has been said that Daz had signed off on some tracks and Dre got the credit for it, why is it wrong to point that out or question what other beats he may not have created that was attributed to him? What I'm seeing here is the same thing I see in Train of Thought, some of you guys don't want to know the truth.

So no, I don't know what beats Dre has done on his own and despite the back and forth none of us do. To say that a beat sounds like Dre doesn't really mean anything. You can go to youtube now and see a million types of beats that beat producers make that sound just like some other beat producer. The fact that Dre has always had someone with him from the Straight Outta Compton days, the drastic change in sound from the first to the second NWA album and other examples I listed in my previous post makes me wonder exactly what his role is in creating beats.

There was never a drastic change in dre's sound, but rather a natural evolution and progression in style.. But it all connects, if u listen to each album one after the other, you can hear the growth
There is a huge difference between Straight/100 and NFL. NFL has the g-funk sound, which Big Hutch is credited with creating. To say that there is a nature progression is to give Dre credit for creating the sound he didn't. As if somehow he would have naturally created that sound anyway.


a lot of the drum patterns and sounds on SOC are the same on Efil4Zaggin, just with a slight funk twist on them. ie appetite for destruction sounds like it coulda very well been on SOC...then that funk got even funkier on the chronic, and peaked in funkiness on doggystyle. thats what i mean by natural progression. he didnt go from straight raw shit to straight funk shit in one shot, it was gradual. simple science.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2016, 08:12:48 PM »
the sound of NFL which would later be polished and improved on The Chronic & Doggystyle is also due to the fact that it's when Dre started working extensively with Colin Wolfe, who was a seasoned musician. Wolfe's interview which surfaced a few years ago is very insightful about it.

I think the main problem was that at the end of the day, when the song said produced by Dre, with nothing else on it left a lot of the contributors pissed and like Dre was taking full credit for their work. Some were cool with it and thought it was part of a learning experience, some were pissed cause they thought they were the producer because they had worked on the song, and some were just disappointed to see them not credited and not compensated for it.

The money aspect comes into play as well, because Death Row (and many other labels for that matter) were very shady when it comes to publishing rights and producing credits, and it wasn't so much Dre's responsibility as it was Suge's. Like for Who Got Some Gangsta Shit, Suge only wanted to credit Snoop for producing the song, and Snoop intervened and got Soopafly to be credited. Soopafly also co-produced every Daz produced song on AEOM but wasn't credited for it and was only paid by Daz, not the label. In an interview, one producer (can't seem to remember who, maybe Chris "The Glove" Taylor) said that he went to Dre to say that he hadn't been paid and credited and Dre told him he wasn't responsible for him, that Suge was taking care of it.

In my opinion, the controversy stems from 1) some of these people's ego : they think they produced a song without realizing and at first understanding the concept (Daz, Warren G) 2) Dre's lack of communication with his collaborators which made it all seem shady for them (see the Glove's interview about his on and off working relationship with Dre on Ruthless, Death Row and Aftermath) 3) the lack of a just system of financial compensation

Throughout the years, you heard Daz, Warren G and Big Hutch venting their frustration and other people like The Glove and Colin Wolfe going into detail how Dre worked with him.

It seems to me the main problem was the lack of details in the credits, even though The Chronic's booklet is somehow detailed, they needed a song by song breakdown of who did what exactly and precisely ala RR&GB where they mentioned the keyboards by Daz & Soopafly, the percussion by Carl Butch Smalls and the guitar by Ricky Rouse or Shorty B or whoever... If Death Row had done that consistently (they did, at times, like when they said Afro Puffs was produced by Dre & Daz), I doubt such controversy would have arisen. But then again, it wasn't necessarily in their interest to do that.

at the end of the day, I think the people that brag the least about being involved on The Chronic and Doggystyle and getting shit done, namely Chris The Glove and Colin Wolfe (Colin Wolfe wasn't involved in the making of Doggystyle) are the ones who were really responsible for most of the magic along with Dre, I love Daz & Warren G, but between rookie beat makers and seasoned producers and session musicians I think the latter are more likely to produce greatness. The Glove is still criminally underrated despite having his hands on a lot of classic records and lesser known genuinely good music over the years, while Daz has a lot of conspiracy theorists thinking he was the mastermind behind The Chronic & Doggystyle, lol.
Great post.

Here is an article about Suge speaking on that:
Suge Knight reflects on Snoop Dogg's "Doggystyle," revealing that Dr. Dre may not have been responsible for as much of the production as it appears.

It's no secret that Dr. Dre has had some help with his production in the past. Scott Storch, Mel-Man, and Colin Wolfe are a few of those at least partially responsible for some of the rapper/producer's biggest tracks. Another name who has appeared in the writing credits of Dre's albums is Dat Nigga Daz aka Daz Dillinger.

It's documented that Daz played a pretty large role in the production on Doggystyle, with writing credits on 6 tracks, but according to a new interview with Suge Knight, he may have not been given the credit he deserved.

The Death Row mogul spoke with Rolling Stone about Snoop's classic debut on it's 20th anniversary, speaking on the rapper's trouble with the law, the impact the album had on the label itself, and of course, the production process behind the record.

Read some excerpts from the interview below, and read the full thing hizere: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/suge-knight-reflects-on-doggystyle-20-years-later-20131125

What do you remember about Doggystyle's production?
[It] was was pretty much luck. Everybody thought [Dr. Dre] would be doing the records, but Daz pretty much did the whole album. And at the end of the day, once Daz finished it, everybody wanted Andre to get the credit. Next thing I know Daz is having a meeting with Andre and them and came back and said, "It's okay, give me a few bucks and I'll sign anything over that says produced by Andre instead of me."

"Ain't No Fun"… one of the homies from The Swans [ed note: the Mad Swan Bloods, or MSB, are a Los Angeles subset of The Bloods street gang] named Pooh, all them dudes already had a record done. And they came and played it for us in the studio. They played us the demo. Everybody looked at it like it was alright. And then after they left, shit, everybody was chopping that same beat.

What do you remember most about what went into making Doggystyle?
We were able to make sure [Snoop] didn't go to prison to make the album. We only had one song done, and then after that it was the [Philip Woldemariam] murder case and the trial. When we got ready to start the trial, $5 million had to be paid to a legal team. And at the time Snoop never sold no records. Jimmy [Iovine], Interscope, those guys were saying they're not going to participate in trying to help keep him out of prison, because they didn't think they were capable of doing it. Because of the simple fact that it was a murder case. If he would have got found guilty, he'd have died in prison. He'd have been there the rest of his life.

Did Snoop think he was going to go to jail?
Everybody thought he was going to go. A few times in court they asked him to stand up, and Snoop would actually get weak in the knees and fall back down. It was a lot of pressure. But it was still good to be able to come through and pull that off for him because it opened it up a bunch of doors and showed the world a different side of rap music.

Do you think Doggystyle solidified Death Row as a label?
When we put out The Chronic people felt there's no way in the world somebody can ever do an album and it come out that well. When The Chronic was out, even Snoop will tell you, if he came on the Interscope side, he didn't see Jimmy [Iovine] any of those guys call Snoop in the office, chop it up with him… because he wasn't the one. And then when Doggystyle came out, shit, he couldn't walk in there without them trying to give him some weed. People thought it couldn't get no better. But the Dogg Pound came in and done well. And then came Tupac. It wasn't Tupac because he was a new artist. Tupac was on Interscope the whole time. They couldn't break a record on him. They couldn't make him a superstar. But the minute I got Pac out of prison…

Any last thoughts on Doggystyle?
Snoop is an artist that is a great artist. So it's good to give him his props about how great Doggystyle was. What made Doggystyle historic is the work on it. If you look at the album cover, everybody sued us and said it was degrading women. But even the guys who did the artwork, who wrote songs, who participated in videos, they were guys who were either wearing red or wearing blue. . . and it was a situation where they all got along. We'd go places and you might see twenty blue rags and twenty red rags. And that was never before seen.

http://www.hotnewhiphop.com/suge-knight-says-daz-ghost-produced-most-of-doggystyle-for-dr-dre-news.8318.html
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 08:14:57 PM by abusive »
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2016, 08:44:11 PM »
Lmfao@taking anything suge says as credible

And roflmao when it's pertaining to dre
 

Jimmy H.

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2016, 09:59:08 PM »
Lmfao@taking anything suge says as credible

And roflmao when it's pertaining to dre
  No shit.  Not even Daz says he produced the whole Doggystyle.