Author Topic: another mass grave in Iraq  (Read 322 times)

Thirteen

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another mass grave in Iraq
« on: October 13, 2004, 12:38:36 PM »
Mass grave unearthed in Iraq
Wednesday, October 13, 2004 Posted: 2:18 PM EDT (1818 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. forces have exhumed a mass grave in northwestern Iraq and uncovered the remains of hundreds of people.

Many of the bodies found at the site near al-Hatra are believed to be the bodies of Kurdish women and children thought slaughtered by the Saddam Hussein regime.

A pool reporter recently was taken to the site, and the evidence gathered at the site -- a remote wadi, or valley that cannot be seen by passing vehicles -- is expected to be used in the war crimes trial against Saddam Hussein and his Baathist allies.

"A perfect place for execution," Greg Kehoe, the head of the Regime Crime Liaison Office and leader of the forensic excavation, said Wednesday.

"It is my personal opinion that this is a killing field," Kehoe told reporters during a visit to the site south of Mosul.

"Someone used this field on significant occasions over time to take bodies up there, and to take people up there and execute them."

Authorities began digging September 1 at the site, found a year ago by the U.S. Army.

Crews have excavated two grave trenches, and officials say there could be as many as 12 in the general area. Kehoe said the bodies were apparently bulldozed into the graves.

"Unlike bodies that you've seen in many mass graves -- they look like cordwood -- all lined up," he said. "That didn't happen here. These bodies were just pushed in."

The first trench contains the remains of women and children, and the second contains the remains of men only. More than 100 bodies have been found from the first location and a similar number from the other.

Officials say it is enough to determine a pattern for the killings.

Kehoe said the victims appear to be Kurds, based on the dress and the personal belongings found.

He believes they were probably killed in early 1988, though it might have happened in late 1987.

Many of the victims wore multiple layers of clothing and carried small personal items like jewelry and medication. One child was found with a ball in his hand.

The women -- four or five of whom were pregnant -- and children appear to have been killed with a single small-caliber gunshot to the head.

Some of the women were blindfolded, but Kehoe says 95 percent of the men were blindfolded and had their hands either tied to the man next to them or tied behind their back. Al-Hatra is in Nineveh province, the location of Mosul and Tal Afar.

A lawyer, Kehoe also spent five years working on the Balkans War Crimes Tribunal.

Kehoe said that most mass graves in Bosnia largely contained men of fighting age. Graves near Hatra included many women and children, he said.

"Genocide is the attempt to eliminate, limit or exterminate a religious, ethnic, national or racial group," he said.

"The Kurds are clearly a different nationality. So could it be considered genocide? It could be. Killing, ethnic cleansing, property relocations, all of those were used to try to limit the Kurdish population. What it is fundamentally is downright murder."

Human rights groups believe about 300,000 people were killed during Saddam's 24-year rule, which ended when U.S.-led forces toppled his regime in 2003.

Saddam is set to stand trial for crimes against humanity and other offenses next year. No trial date has been set.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2004, 12:51:47 PM by Cartman »
 

mauzip

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2004, 12:48:26 PM »
and then people still say there wasn't any reason to invade iraq ::)
 

Thirteen

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 12:52:53 PM »
and then people still say there wasn't any reason to invade iraq ::)

you forgot the muslim/arab handbook they can kill who ever they want but if a westerner kills them, then it's horrible
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 02:28:45 PM »
You fuckin idiots. THESE MASS GRAVES HAPPENED UNDER AMERICAN SUPERVISION AND/OR APPROVAL. so the only thing proven is how complicit your govt is in these crimes.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 02:30:47 PM »
o yeah i forgot.

This is bush fault, and he made these mass graves.....and then he uncovered them.
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2004, 02:43:37 PM »
Boy, wash your mouth with soap, and slap your self. Your posting game is under sanctions till youre able to put together a relevent sentence. That means no post zones, and TOT is one of them.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2004, 03:36:48 PM »
You fuckin idiots. THESE MASS GRAVES HAPPENED UNDER AMERICAN SUPERVISION AND/OR APPROVAL. so the only thing proven is how complicit your govt is in these crimes.

Conspiracy Theory's  are not proof.
 

Sikotic™

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2004, 07:50:53 PM »
So I guess this should make me want to justify the war now.
 

Thirteen

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2004, 08:23:20 PM »
You fuckin idiots. THESE MASS GRAVES HAPPENED UNDER AMERICAN SUPERVISION AND/OR APPROVAL. so the only thing proven is how complicit your govt is in these crimes.

um wouldn't we have found them all already?

if i supervised you taking out the trash at sizzlers...it wouldn't take me a year to figure out where you put the trash... once again, it's just common sense
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2004, 08:43:51 PM »
Man, if this is your form of arguing and your level of thinking, it is a dis service to me to keep arguing with you.

So because Saddam didnt have the courtesy to completely inform the Americans of the geographical location of dead bodies that absolves the Americans completely?
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Thirteen

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2004, 08:49:33 PM »
Man, if this is your form of arguing and your level of thinking, it is a dis service to me to keep arguing with you.

So because Saddam didnt have the courtesy to completely inform the Americans of the geographical location of dead bodies that absolves the Americans completely?

but you said america supervised in this killings...i don't know what kind of supervision they teach at sizzlers, but in the grown up world, supervisors end up knowing all the details of what ever task they are supposed to accomplish
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2004, 08:53:41 PM »
Yes, you dumb ass, the Americans supplied the weapons the Iraqis used on the Kurds,. They allowed, sat and watched Hussein crush the north and southern insurgencies following Gulf War. So yes, the Americans did know that Kurds were gettin it in the North and the Shias were gettin it in the South. Whether or not they know the exact precise location of graves is completely irrelevent.

Also, why are you mentioning the fact that America hasnt discovered these graves as proof. Why are you assuming there is a concious effort to unearth graves by America?
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Thirteen

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2004, 09:03:33 PM »
Yes, you dumb ass, the Americans supplied the weapons the Iraqis used on the Kurds,. They allowed, sat and watched Hussein crush the north and southern insurgencies following Gulf War. So yes, the Americans did know that Kurds were gettin it in the North and the Shias were gettin it in the South. Whether or not they know the exact precise location of graves is completely irrelevent.

Also, why are you mentioning the fact that America hasnt discovered these graves as proof. Why are you assuming there is a concious effort to unearth graves by America?

once again..if america watched them kill a bunch of people, then they would know where they are... are you just learning the english language?

anyways i attribute the consious effort part to two parts...

first...i don't know if you ever held a gun before...but it's kinda hard to cover your back when you're digging up graves...seeing as america is losing the war against terrorism i would think they'd have better things to do than dig up graves on accident

secondly....what better way to make yourself better looking to slap a few more cases of genocide on the person you've ousted out of leadership?



 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2004, 09:29:36 PM »
Your problem Smerlus, is not that youre an inherent dumbness, a paralyzing stupidity that just shuts down the mental capacity. You just dont understand how politics works and how things go down in the world.

Americans soldiers werent standing guard sippin Dom Perignom when this was going down but they KNEW it was going down and where. Why theyre not finding it is their own concern, but they know about it cuz they let it happen. Do you understand this concept?

"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Thirteen

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2004, 09:36:35 PM »
well then i guess everyone knew taht it was happening...just like i know a a dozen people in the world just died while i typed this up... i guess that makes me guilty for that
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2004, 10:03:21 PM »
Man, why are you not understanding simple concepts? Sit down , take out ya notebook and start writing,

Saddams Mass Graves 101: Introduction

While Saddam was consistently oppressive and tyrannic through out his around 25 years in power, when mention is made of Saddam Husseins internal crimes, the two of note are:

1. Gassing of the Kurds 1988.

The horrific destruction of Kurdish villages via chemical weapons occured in the final stages of the dirty Iran/Iraq war 80-88.
The Kurds during the war naturally sought out their own aspirations, some sympathizing with the Iranians, some launching revolts of their own. In response Saddam had them gassed. Thousands dead. America, as it has been proven by numerous resources, as simple as just visiting your local library, fully assisted the Iraqis in their war and oversaw this horrific act. And no action was taken. The Americans were actively involved in this war on the Iraqi side, so they are at worse indirectly implicit in this act. American love for Saddam ended in 90/91. In 88, they were still fuckin wit each other heavy,

2. The crushing of the Shias 1991.

Following the ouster of Iraq from Kuwait, the Americans stopped, they didnt go into Iraq and finish the job. Thats been debated since, i aint trying to do it here. But regardless, the Shias and the Kurds sought to rise up while Saddam was vulnerable. Bush the elder even fully stated on live tv that they SHOULD rise up. He actively encouraged them to, and quitely sat down and shut up when Saddam used the remains of his army to completely wipe out entire civilians populations. Thats where most of the graves are located, southern Iraq where Shias are the majority. The Americans even, unbelievable as it may seem, allowed Iraqi helicopters to perform missions despite an applied no fly zone. The intentions behind those actions are up for debate, although I personally believe that American govt officials at the time sought to keep Iraq under a secular dictatorship albiet battered and bruised and no longer a threat to oil/israeli interests.

Either way you look at it, irregardless of what incident led to the graves, America is involved and complicit in these crimes. That doesnt mean America is inherently evil. It just means you shouldnt have the audacity to state these events as your reasoning for removing the man.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Thirteen

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2004, 10:05:40 PM »
read the article, they used bullets not gas.... can you pull up the american receipts for these bullets?
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2004, 10:19:19 PM »
I GIVE UP!!!!!!

You cant be saved.....You just , I cannot explain it man. This is a new alltime WCC low, seriously. To me, youre just above Verbal Assaulta. C Walker makes you look like a dufus, let alone gettin me involved. The other lames usually kinda understand the subject, but misinterpret the actions wrong, they dont know the context and then provide an incorrect opinion. But you, it seems like your mind just cannot accept more than a certain amount of information before it shuts the door , nah mean? And so you just cap off there. Youll just turn dumb and not be able to understand further information.

For example, this goof understands that Iraq is a country, located somewhere in the Middle East and they beefing with America. He understands that a war was fought in 91, and then there were crimes. ANd  thats it, he cant accept any more. The memory drive is all used up. Information cap syndrome is what I call it. This is the first case here in WCC but Im pretty sure if we were aware of its dangers earlier we wouldve been more vigilant in our posting.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Thirteen

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2004, 10:29:07 PM »

1. Gassing of the Kurds 1988.

The horrific destruction of Kurdish villages via chemical weapons occured in the final stages of the dirty Iran/Iraq war 80-88.
The Kurds during the war naturally sought out their own aspirations, some sympathizing with the Iranians, some launching revolts of their own. In response Saddam had them gassed. Thousands dead. America, as it has been proven by numerous resources, as simple as just visiting your local library, fully assisted the Iraqis in their war and oversaw this horrific act. And no action was taken. The Americans were actively involved in this war on the Iraqi side, so they are at worse indirectly implicit in this act. American love for Saddam ended in 90/91. In 88, they were still fuckin wit each other heavy,


i'm just stating the facts...you say america is to blame for this because america gave them the gas and sat back... but these bodies dated back to 88 and they used bullets..the two stories don't match up

plus if we were so interested in iraq back then like you would like to believe we were, we should have known about the graves earlier and not needed to find them

if there's ever a sale on common sense... i'll be sure to pick you up some
 

mauzip

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2004, 01:29:07 AM »
One day I hope to see pictures of King Fag in an Iraqi prison. :)

 :loser:
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2004, 01:11:41 PM »
one day I hope to see a decent post from you, Mozip. Good Luck.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2004, 01:43:28 PM »
one day I hope to see a decent post from you, Mozip. Good Luck.


I used to be paranois like you, and thought that everything was a conspiracy and the news channells all lied. I still don't think we get the truth, but I just don't care anymore, because I am not in a position to stop it. I also refuse to assume an unproven truth (something I didn't always do). Just because America may be telling lies doesn't mean we can figure what the truth is. You don't know what really happened with those Kurds, so you shouldn't make bold statements. A lot goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I understand your anger towards propaganda, but you can't fight propaganda with propaganda and expect to win. Unless you were there and saw who killed the Kurds, or were in the some special meeting and heard American officers give the okay, you cannot lay claim to knowing the truth.
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2004, 04:11:43 PM »
Man, why are you not understanding simple concepts? Sit down , take out ya notebook and start writing,

Saddams Mass Graves 101: Introduction

While Saddam was consistently oppressive and tyrannic through out his around 25 years in power, when mention is made of Saddam Husseins internal crimes, the two of note are:

1. Gassing of the Kurds 1988.

The horrific destruction of Kurdish villages via chemical weapons occured in the final stages of the dirty Iran/Iraq war 80-88.
The Kurds during the war naturally sought out their own aspirations, some sympathizing with the Iranians, some launching revolts of their own. In response Saddam had them gassed. Thousands dead. America, as it has been proven by numerous resources, as simple as just visiting your local library, fully assisted the Iraqis in their war and oversaw this horrific act. And no action was taken. The Americans were actively involved in this war on the Iraqi side, so they are at worse indirectly implicit in this act. American love for Saddam ended in 90/91. In 88, they were still fuckin wit each other heavy,

2. The crushing of the Shias 1991.

Following the ouster of Iraq from Kuwait, the Americans stopped, they didnt go into Iraq and finish the job. Thats been debated since, i aint trying to do it here. But regardless, the Shias and the Kurds sought to rise up while Saddam was vulnerable. Bush the elder even fully stated on live tv that they SHOULD rise up. He actively encouraged them to, and quitely sat down and shut up when Saddam used the remains of his army to completely wipe out entire civilians populations. Thats where most of the graves are located, southern Iraq where Shias are the majority. The Americans even, unbelievable as it may seem, allowed Iraqi helicopters to perform missions despite an applied no fly zone. The intentions behind those actions are up for debate, although I personally believe that American govt officials at the time sought to keep Iraq under a secular dictatorship albiet battered and bruised and no longer a threat to oil/israeli interests.

Either way you look at it, irregardless of what incident led to the graves, America is involved and complicit in these crimes. That doesnt mean America is inherently evil. It just means you shouldnt have the audacity to state these events as your reasoning for removing the man.

This is all a Conspiracy that cant be proven.
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2004, 04:15:13 PM »
one day I hope to see a decent post from you, Mozip. Good Luck.


I used to be paranois like you, and thought that everything was a conspiracy and the news channells all lied. I still don't think we get the truth, but I just don't care anymore, because I am not in a position to stop it. I also refuse to assume an unproven truth (something I didn't always do). Just because America may be telling lies doesn't mean we can figure what the truth is. You don't know what really happened with those Kurds, so you shouldn't make bold statements. A lot goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I understand your anger towards propaganda, but you can't fight propaganda with propaganda and expect to win. Unless you were there and saw who killed the Kurds, or were in the some special meeting and heard American officers give the okay, you cannot lay claim to knowing the truth.

I dont know who you are, but you were never me. Dont get it twisted. And dont apply that essay to me because it is non applicable.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

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Re: another mass grave in Iraq
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2004, 04:15:41 PM »
Man, why are you not understanding simple concepts? Sit down , take out ya notebook and start writing,

Saddams Mass Graves 101: Introduction

While Saddam was consistently oppressive and tyrannic through out his around 25 years in power, when mention is made of Saddam Husseins internal crimes, the two of note are:

1. Gassing of the Kurds 1988.

The horrific destruction of Kurdish villages via chemical weapons occured in the final stages of the dirty Iran/Iraq war 80-88.
The Kurds during the war naturally sought out their own aspirations, some sympathizing with the Iranians, some launching revolts of their own. In response Saddam had them gassed. Thousands dead. America, as it has been proven by numerous resources, as simple as just visiting your local library, fully assisted the Iraqis in their war and oversaw this horrific act. And no action was taken. The Americans were actively involved in this war on the Iraqi side, so they are at worse indirectly implicit in this act. American love for Saddam ended in 90/91. In 88, they were still fuckin wit each other heavy,

2. The crushing of the Shias 1991.

Following the ouster of Iraq from Kuwait, the Americans stopped, they didnt go into Iraq and finish the job. Thats been debated since, i aint trying to do it here. But regardless, the Shias and the Kurds sought to rise up while Saddam was vulnerable. Bush the elder even fully stated on live tv that they SHOULD rise up. He actively encouraged them to, and quitely sat down and shut up when Saddam used the remains of his army to completely wipe out entire civilians populations. Thats where most of the graves are located, southern Iraq where Shias are the majority. The Americans even, unbelievable as it may seem, allowed Iraqi helicopters to perform missions despite an applied no fly zone. The intentions behind those actions are up for debate, although I personally believe that American govt officials at the time sought to keep Iraq under a secular dictatorship albiet battered and bruised and no longer a threat to oil/israeli interests.

Either way you look at it, irregardless of what incident led to the graves, America is involved and complicit in these crimes. That doesnt mean America is inherently evil. It just means you shouldnt have the audacity to state these events as your reasoning for removing the man.

This is all a Conspiracy that cant be proven.

Not now, nap time later;. Daddys tired.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll