Author Topic: Arafat Has Passed Away  (Read 339 times)

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2004, 08:01:23 AM »
Yeah, it's an interesting encyclopedia
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2004, 08:04:20 AM »
So, what if they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years so were the rest of the Arabs of the erea? (Jews were exiled for 2000 years yet they were the ones to start fighting for this Land), Leaders of Arab nations did gain land due to those Negotiations: Jordan, Egypt, Syria....Where were the Palestinians?  why didn't they gain Land like the rest of the Arab parties? I'll tell you why, Because they had no Identity, They were refugees way before Israel proclaimed it's formal independence, They had no leadership since they weren't a singular mass...They proclaimed their  national identity only to Claim their piece of the pie.

I forgot to coment on Chaplain Clausner, With the amount of Jews that fleed to USA after the WW2 I would say his convictions were hystoriclly incorect.

I already answered that in my post:
You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.

By the way, I didn't get any of my information from any website at all. I read books.
In addition, if you don't hold the statements made by an ISRAELI HISTORIAN credible, and feel that you know more about the situation than he does, then what do you consider a credible source? The Israeli government's website?


Historions have opinions and diffrences on certain isues, What I do know for a fact is that large numbers of Jews fleed to USA after WW2 and this alone already discredits his statement.

p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 08:12:29 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2004, 08:13:27 AM »
Yes, Jews did come to the U.S.
He didn't say that no Jews came here; he stated that at the time, in Europe, a large number of Jews were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine.,

By the way, Klausner was a ZIONIST ORGANIZER, and this is what he told the American Jewish Congress.

Benny Morris, the ISRAELI HISTORIAN, is the one who said that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages. (contradictory to the bullshit the Israeli government made up decades before saying that the Arab leaders told the people to flee).

LOL, seriously, look at the sources in capital letters.... if you consider that "bias" then there's no point in arguing with you because God forbid I use an Arab/Palestinian source... we'd have PROPAGANDA typed all over the thread...
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2004, 08:31:46 AM »
p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.

You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...

After World War I, Britain and France pretty much split the Arab world and took a share (Sykes-Picot Agreement). The British offered Arab leaders independent states in exchange for an Arab led revolt against the Ottomans. At the same time the British announced the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish state. Around the time of World War II, Britain seeked assistance from the Arab armies in the region, and in 1939 issued a White Paper, which put quotas on Jewish immigrants to Palestine. The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community. So the Zionists needed a new patron of their state. With America controlling more and more oil in the region, it needed stability in the region. It needed a stable ally. With all these new assets, America felt that a U.S. oriented, European populated Jewish state in Palestine, a more trustworthy, stable ally was necessary. When Truman asked the British to allow an extra 100,000 of Jewish refugees, the British went to bargain with the Zionists, offering them this wave of refugees if the Zionists disarm. The Zionists responded by blowing up all that shit, and in 1947 Britain turned the problem over to the UN. The U.S. was the most powerful member of the organization; there were only 55 member states, and most of those depended on U.S. aid to rebuild their war shattered countries/economies. For example, the Philippines voted against the partition and creation of a Jewish state. Guess what happened to the diplomat who spoke out in the General Assembly? He was recalled. The same thing happened to the delegate from Siam (Thailand). And we have the birth of Israel.
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2004, 08:38:06 AM »
Yes, Jews did come to the U.S.
He didn't say that no Jews came here; he stated that at the time, in Europe, a large number of Jews were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine.,

By the way, Klausner was a ZIONIST ORGANIZER, and this is what he told the American Jewish Congress.

Benny Morris, the ISRAELI HISTORIAN, is the one who said that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages. (contradictory to the bullshit the Israeli government made up decades before saying that the Arab leaders told the people to flee).

LOL, seriously, look at the sources in capital letters.... if you consider that "bias" then there's no point in arguing with you because God forbid I use an Arab/Palestinian source... we'd have PROPAGANDA typed all over the thread...


 Clausner was speculating, I just think that if all Jews that fleed to USA would be forced to come to Israel than the whole Isue of the Jewish Majority could be solved.
Atacks of Jewish Irguns on Arab Villages for no reason had no practicall point at the time, especially when the ideology of the Irguns was originally to create a bi-national state with the Palestinians....If there was something to that effect it could have only been retaliation due to Local conflicts.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 08:46:20 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2004, 08:45:02 AM »
p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.

You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...

 The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community.


lol....Yea, sure, this is a complete contradiction to what I just said.....
« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 08:47:53 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2004, 08:46:23 AM »
Once again, you're wrong.

In 1919, Wilson dispatched an American delegation, the King-Crane Commission to Palestine.
This is what they came back with: "in the Commission's conferences with the Jewish representatives... the Zionists looked forward to practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine"

Prior to that, they mentioned that they were predisposed to favor the Zionist movement, but once they were in Palestine and realized what the situation was actually like and got to see the facts, they disagreed with the plan of unlimited immigration of European Jews into Palestine. Only when we acquired all that oil did we change our stance on that.
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2004, 08:49:24 AM »
p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.

You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...

 The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community.


lol....Yea, sure, this is a complete contradiction to what I said.....

If you read an entire post for once, you may be able to understand things better and figure shit out. The British favored the creation of a Jewish state up until World War II, at which point they needed Arab support in the war. That's when they put a limit on the number of Jews that could immigrate to Palestine. The Zionists got angry and retaliated and eventually the U.S. sided with them for its own economic interests. I really don't see why this is so hard for you to grasp.
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2004, 08:54:41 AM »
p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.

You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...

 The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community.


lol....Yea, sure, this is a complete contradiction to what I said.....

If you read an entire post for once, you may be able to understand things better and figure shit out. The British favored the creation of a Jewish state up until World War II, at which point they needed Arab support in the war. That's when they put a limit on the number of Jews that could immigrate to Palestine. The Zionists got angry and retaliated and eventually the U.S. sided with them for its own economic interests. I really don't see why this is so hard for you to grasp.


lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Trauma-san

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2004, 08:57:33 AM »
Liberals are some flower power motherfuckers.  I classify most of the idiots on this topic as liberals, just to clarify.  Yall aren't interested in the results, you're only interested in the methods, or the intent.  Lemme give you an example.

A Man like Yassir Arafat, leading the PLO blows up fucking planes and everything else killing innocents and basically helps found the entire modern day terrorist movement, which is now causing problems all over the world, and recently killed 3000 Americans in one day.  However, since Arafat 'denounced' terrorism later in his life, he's to be applauded as a leader for his people.


FUCK THAT.  This guy is scum, he's burning in hell right now for those people he killed with those fucking bombs, I'm not forgiving him for it, and he's not reformed in my eyes.  Jeffrey Dahmer died a fucking murderer.  Charles Manson will die a fucking murderer.  Arafat already died a fucking terrorist, the only thing I regret is that they didn't dump his body in the fucking mud like they did the Ayatollah Khomeni's.  
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2004, 09:01:18 AM »
Liberals are some flower power motherfuckers.  I classify most of the idiots on this topic as liberals, just to clarify.  Yall aren't interested in the results, you're only interested in the methods, or the intent.  Lemme give you an example.

A Man like Yassir Arafat, leading the PLO blows up fucking planes and everything else killing innocents and basically helps found the entire modern day terrorist movement, which is now causing problems all over the world, and recently killed 3000 Americans in one day.  However, since Arafat 'denounced' terrorism later in his life, he's to be applauded as a leader for his people.


FUCK THAT.  This guy is scum, he's burning in hell right now for those people he killed with those fucking bombs, I'm not forgiving him for it, and he's not reformed in my eyes.  Jeffrey Dahmer died a fucking murderer.  Charles Manson will die a fucking murderer.  Arafat already died a fucking terrorist, the only thing I regret is that they didn't dump his body in the fucking mud like they did the Ayatollah Khomeni's.  

Isn't it "Mormon-Fuck-Your-Sibling-Day" ?
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2004, 09:02:31 AM »
lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.

Ok, and?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2004, 09:07:16 AM »
lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.

Ok, and?

and?...While  Brits needed Arab support why didn't the Palestinians use those times to claim their "national Home", their own state.....
« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 09:09:00 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2004, 09:07:34 AM »
lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.

Ok, and?

and?...While  Brits needed Arab support why didn't the Palestinians use those times to claim their "national Home" their own state.....

You just said you read the entire post. Read the part where Britain turned the problem over to the UN.
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2004, 09:12:02 AM »
lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.

Ok, and?

and?...While  Brits needed Arab support why didn't the Palestinians use those times to claim their "national Home" their own state.....

You just said you read the entire post. Read the part where Britain turned the problem over to the UN.

u seem to miss the point, it's not about outsider factors, it's about their own motivation, about what they were doing to solidify their rights to inherit the Land....They were doing nothing, As soon as they realised Jews were to proclaim a state of their own they rushed to proclaim themselves as a rightworthy nation that doesn not recognize Israel's right for existance.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2004, 09:14:27 AM »
Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me

What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2004, 09:20:51 AM »
Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me

What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them

Never expected....now you have got to be kidden', man they have lived for 400 years under foreign mandates, never expected? They knew nothing but it....And they were OK with that occupation.
Poor camel jockeys??!....There were enough influential land owning sheihs, Jews were buying Land from many of them.

What about poor Haulacaust refugees fighting for their rights?

The only reason to why they didn't claim shit was because they didn't have a single indentity, just like I was saying all day long, They were in the form of many parties and tribes with differend backgrounds with no Monolithic National agenda up untill the time they felt intimidated enough.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 09:24:48 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2004, 09:23:58 AM »
Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me

What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them

Never expected....now you have got to be kidden', man they have lived for 400 years under foreign mandates, never expected? They knew nothing but it....And they were OK with that occupation.
Poor camel jockeys??!....There were enough influential land owning sheihs, Jews were buying Land from many of them.

What about poor Haulacaust refugees fighting for their rights?

They lived under Ottoman control for 400 years. Do you seriously think they could just go and ask "Hey, we were kinda wondering... could we have our own country?"

Then after World War I, Britain refused to even consider a Palestinian state. They wouldn't have it.

 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2004, 09:26:05 AM »
Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me

What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them

Never expected....now you have got to be kidden', man they have lived for 400 years under foreign mandates, never expected? They knew nothing but it....And they were OK with that occupation.
Poor camel jockeys??!....There were enough influential land owning sheihs, Jews were buying Land from many of them.

What about poor Haulacaust refugees fighting for their rights?

They lived under Ottoman control for 400 years. Do you seriously think they could just go and ask "Hey, we were kinda wondering... could we have our own country?"

Then after World War I, Britain refused to even consider a Palestinian state. They wouldn't have it.



and than suddenly it erupted?!! oh please...
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2004, 09:27:11 AM »
Holocaust refugees?
As much as I sympathize with them, they had no claim to land in Palestine. They were European. If the U.S. wanted Jews to have their own land so bad, why not slice them off a piece of land here? Alaska seems like a fit choice.
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2004, 09:29:15 AM »
Suddenly erupted? No.
Like you said, as soon as they saw EUROPEAN JEWS (who have no claim to the land) flood the area with waves upon waves of immigrants, they were like "Shit, they're gonna steal our land, we better lay claim to it." They had no power, and the EUROPEAN JEWS were successful in stealing the land.
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2004, 09:32:42 AM »
Holocaust refugees?
As much as I sympathize with them, they had no claim to land in Palestine. They were European. If the U.S. wanted Jews to have their own land so bad, why not slice them off a piece of land here? Alaska seems like a fit choice.

Well I agree that USA had it's own interest but Creating a Jewish State on The Historical Land oF Israel seems very Logical....Plus, WW2 did prove that those European Jews were nowhere near European(They may have lived there but they didn't belong), Have you seen nearly as many non Jewish Europeans in them death camps?
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2004, 09:36:35 AM »
Suddenly erupted? No.
Like you said, as soon as they saw EUROPEAN JEWS (who have no claim to the land) flood the area with waves upon waves of immigrants, they were like "Shit, they're gonna steal our land, we better lay claim to it." They had no power, and the EUROPEAN JEWS were successful in stealing the land.


and they didn't get this feeling up untill the fourth century of mandates?!...lol...may be since those mandates had so much right to exist....
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2004, 09:38:50 AM »
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Has Passed Away
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2004, 09:40:06 AM »
The Historical Land oF Israel  

 :)

It would suit you better if I refered to it as The Biblical Land Of Israel?
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?