It's May 13, 2024, 02:24:44 AM
Mohamed being portrayed as a terrorist has nothing to do with the fact there is a correlation between Islam and terrorism?
Give me a fuckin break mate. Do you think Jews outside of Israel weren't outraged at the anti-Jewish cartoons along the Arab world?
U have underlined my point: When it suits them they say "freedom of speech" when it doesn't they holler "double standard".
Quote from: Real American on February 11, 2006, 08:17:19 AMExactly. But it is even worse. Muslims won't even allow Christians and other religious groups to freely practice their religion.that is basically a lie. it's just not true. across the arab & muslim world; christian and other religious groups are free to practice their religions. depending on the state, proselytizing is either illegal or frowned upon; but other than that they are free to practice. the specifics vary state by state. in some countries islam is the official religion, other countries require their presidents or prime ministers to be muslim; things like that. there have been protests in lebanon over the cartoons, and lebanon has all sorts of religious diversity and the president is christian. without question religion plays a significantly different role in that region, but freedom to practice christianity and even judiasm is largely recognized.
Exactly. But it is even worse. Muslims won't even allow Christians and other religious groups to freely practice their religion.
When you make stupid posts like that you pretty much kill any credibility you have.
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.
Stop with the nonsense, man. You say that Christians can freely practice their religion, except for not being able to proselytize. Guess what niimrod.....seeking converts is part of the Christian religion!!!!
Plus, how many governments in the Middle East follow Islamic law to the dismay of non-Muslims?
Not to mention countries like Saudi Arabia that outlaw all religion except Islam.
Just this past Christmas foreign workers there were arrested for celebrating Christmas! I can post the article if you would like! That is true religious oppression and intolerance!!!!
Justifying blatant oppression like outlawing religions but attacking the publication of cartoons? When you make stupid posts like that you pretty much kill any credibility you have.
Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 11, 2006, 02:02:09 PMMohamed being portrayed as a terrorist has nothing to do with the fact there is a correlation between Islam and terrorism?terrorism is an ugly word.would you agree that there is a correlation between zionism and oppression and terrorism?israel has both oppressed and terrorized the palestinian people.QuoteGive me a fuckin break mate. Do you think Jews outside of Israel weren't outraged at the anti-Jewish cartoons along the Arab world?you did not understand my point. because judaism is at the heart of zionism, judaism is the root of the palestine problem; and thus it is attacked as zionism is the target.in contrast, islam is not the root of the "terrorism" problem. the root of the "terrorism" problem is the political/economic/military oppression of people in the muslim world and elsewhere.it's not the same issue. QuoteU have underlined my point: When it suits them they say "freedom of speech" when it doesn't they holler "double standard".your point is invalid. there are two issues here:b) the second issue is the double standard in the western media.there is a clear double standard in the west, as islam is not afforded the same level of respect as judaism or christianity. you don't want to acknowledge the double standard in the west, so you turn this around against the muslim world, which leads to the first issue...a) the primary issue here is that this caricature is an assault against islam; and against muslim populations in the west. that is the reason for the outrage. just as you are attempting to disparage islam by claiming that there is a correlation between islam and terrorism (correlation != causality); the muslim world is outraged over these continued assaults against islam. the reason we are arguing "hypocrisy" is to expose the "freedom of speech" argument that has been used to justify this printing as a farce. "freedom of speech" does not mask the fact that this is an assault on islam. an assault on a religion in this manner is not something that people should sit down and take. which brings us back to the second point. yes, clearly the cartoons in the arab world that you reference are an assault on zionism. these cartoons would be inappropriate if they were not a response to oppression and tyranny by the zionists themselves. there is an understood state of hostility between several arab & muslim states and israel; largely rooted in the arguably criminal existence of the state of israel, the occupation of palestinian and foreign territories, and numerous other horrific transgressions. those anti-zionist cartoons are an expression of that hostility. everyone acknowledges that. to put these cartoons on the same footing as the caricature of muhammad is to suggest that there is an analagous state of hostility between the west and islam. are you suggesting that the west and islam exist in a state of hostility?
Totalitarian regimes that hide behind the masks of Islam exploit religion for political causes. Same as Islamic terrorist groups do ("In the name of Allah")....
Quote from: Don Rizzle on May 10, 2006, 03:16:12 AMiraq would just get annexed by iranThat would be a great solution. If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
iraq would just get annexed by iran
Judaism is at the heart of Zionism?- I would say this is inaccurate at best. The first thing u should know is that Zionism as a movement which lead to the creation of the state of Israel, was primarily a secular movement. Ben-Gurion even censored the word GOD out of the Israeli declaration of independence.
Do not shuffle the concepts of Jewry and Judaism. Jewry is at the heart of Zionism...yes(as in belonging to the Jewish people). But most of the people who were active in the creation of this state were 100% secular. Zionism is based on a historical claim not on a religious one.
Unlike the Arab claim to the land which is religious primarily- "Dar Al Islam"-(House of submission- a term for land under Muslim adminstration, it is believed by many Muslims that the creation of a non Muslim entity within it, is bound to fail) the Jewish claim to the land isn't religious- It's practical, and anti-semitism has alot to do with it as well.
Take Zionism, how much oppression had it caused (Im not even asking you to look into the circumstances)?
Now examine the oppression in the Arab World?
(without minding the FACT they were addressing Judaism many times, and not Zionism)
Now it's funny u view anti-Jewish cartoons as understandable due to the existence of Israel
and you refuse to understand the satirical use of strong correlation to hint at causality- between Islam and Terrorism.
As for the west and Islam being in a likely state of hostility....hmmm let me think...9-11?
Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 12, 2006, 03:06:13 AMJudaism is at the heart of Zionism?- I would say this is inaccurate at best. The first thing u should know is that Zionism as a movement which lead to the creation of the state of Israel, was primarily a secular movement. Ben-Gurion even censored the word GOD out of the Israeli declaration of independence.at best inaccurate? you are arguing that that zionism was about the creation for the homeland for the jewish people, which only "coincidentall"y represents a people that all share the same faith. all i'm saying is that the faith is inextricably interwined.QuoteDo not shuffle the concepts of Jewry and Judaism. Jewry is at the heart of Zionism...yes(as in belonging to the Jewish people). But most of the people who were active in the creation of this state were 100% secular. Zionism is based on a historical claim not on a religious one. according to the u.s. state department's human rights report on israel:The Basic Law and Declaration of Independence recognize the country as a "Jewish and democratic state," establishing Judaism as the country's dominant religion. Civil rights NGOs have accurately charged the Government with the discriminatory allocation of state resources favoring Orthodox Jewish institutions.i acknowledge that zionism is focused around the notion of a jewish people/ethnic group/race. i maintain that religion is intrinsically a large part of that. QuoteUnlike the Arab claim to the land which is religious primarily- "Dar Al Islam"-(House of submission- a term for land under Muslim adminstration, it is believed by many Muslims that the creation of a non Muslim entity within it, is bound to fail) the Jewish claim to the land isn't religious- It's practical, and anti-semitism has alot to do with it as well.do you want to argue the various claims to the land, or the cartoons? immigrants were brought in and a state was created on land that other people already occupied. the self-determination of the palestinian people was ignored until the palestinians were driven out of their land. what's more practical than self-determination, which was ignored by the british and the u.n.?QuoteTake Zionism, how much oppression had it caused (Im not even asking you to look into the circumstances)?alot. millions of refugees and displaced persons. military attacks against civillian residencies.QuoteNow examine the oppression in the Arab World?can we agree that oppression anywhere is bad?Quote (without minding the FACT they were addressing Judaism many times, and not Zionism)i maintain that judaism and zionism are intertwined. refering to a jewish race or ethnic group has oft been discredited, and before the creation of israel there was no state to declare jews as a people to. jews from various backgrounds returned to israel after the state was created. jerusalem was regarded as more of a spiritual homeland by many jews of varying backgrounds.QuoteNow it's funny u view anti-Jewish cartoons as understandable due to the existence of Israelunderstandable because of the hostility between the arab world and the jewish "people" because of the existence of israel. understandable in the context of hostility.Quoteand you refuse to understand the satirical use of strong correlation to hint at causality- between Islam and Terrorism.terrorism is an ugly word with negative connotations. evil connotations. i am rejecting the choice of wording without the context of hostility.QuoteAs for the west and Islam being in a likely state of hostility....hmmm let me think...9-11?the american president and american government do not make that connection between 9/11 and islam. islamic extremists, maybe. but that is not islam as a whole, which is what these cartoons are assaulting
1.Creating a homeland for the Jewish People was about creating a refuge for the Jewish People from Anti-Semitism, FIRST AND FOREMOST= Zionism.
Cartoons mockin a religion that has little to do with the creation of a state
compared to cartoons mocking the faith of some of the most dangerous terrorists the world has ever witnessed
Both are triggered by ostensible hostility and fear. Double standard is when you're making it appear as though it's understandable to mock one religion, and forbidden to mock another.
I think to a certain extent though we have to be careful not to refer to Israel too much though, what you have to remember is that every time we refer to foregin affairs we take the attention away from what is happening in our own backyard.
Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 12, 2006, 07:29:02 AM1.Creating a homeland for the Jewish People was about creating a refuge for the Jewish People from Anti-Semitism, FIRST AND FOREMOST= Zionism.only ~50% of the jews in israel are ashkenazi. the other half are sephardi or mizrahi.