It's May 13, 2024, 12:52:40 AM
it seems clear to me that in the u.s. the arab world is not respected. the cartoon issue that you referenced make it clear to me that in europe, the muslim world is not respected either.
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.
We had slightly different reasons; you had your views on whether God can be man and that the Quran was never changed, and I had mine on whether God's prophet would have to pick up arms and fight oppressors when a prophet like Moses had God coming in and dealing with it for him.
Quote from: Shallow on February 27, 2006, 04:06:32 PMThere it is again, you taking a small percentage of whites which represents no where near the minority and make it seem like most whites act like this. It's no different than saying most muslim rioted over the cartoons. look at the american government, and this dubai ports issue. 95% of the american government, both democrats and republicans, have made it clear that they just don't trust arabs period. the uae is one of the few arab states (along with kuwait & qatar) that have been helpful and accomodating in the war against iraq. for example the saudis opposed the u.s. using bases in saudi arabia; turkey (not arab, but muslim) denied usage of u.s. bases and their airspace; as a result u.s. troops and operations largely were based in kuwait, qatar and the uae. if the u.s. govt feels they cannot trust one of the few arab states that supported their preemptive war against another arab state (iraq); it's clear that the u.s. government feels it cannot trust any arabs at all. it's clear that this is a position widely held across the u.s; based on the reaction to this dubai issue.it seems clear to me that in the u.s. the arab world is not respected. the cartoon issue that you referenced make it clear to me that in europe, the muslim world is not respected either.
There it is again, you taking a small percentage of whites which represents no where near the minority and make it seem like most whites act like this. It's no different than saying most muslim rioted over the cartoons.
I love when you say this though; "other than the questionable interpretations that some christian sects have taken towards the nature of christ, and the notion of a trinity.". Some sects? Of the nearly 2 billion Christians, a lot more than "some" have the trinity in their doctrine.
So you believe what I had been taught is a lie. So by logic I have to believew what you have been taught it is a lie.
While you think the written Gospel was changed I think the Quran was created by man using the old texts and various Greek and pre-Greek sciences and used as a revolutionary tool to roud up troops and keep them inspired.
I don't get why after Jesus, who showed no signs of deadly violence or battle and inspired a movement of spreading faith through sacrifice. Why would Muhammad have to protect the word of God so strongly with swords when Christianity grew so well with out an army of soldiers?
It just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm talking about the majority of the American people.
It's the same logic that applies to people that say the majority of the American's were on the same side as the Klan back in the day. Well if that was true then there would be no black people in the US.
Infinite made it seem that every, or the majority, of whites in the US write off any arab or muslim as a terrorist and don't regard them as being able to be intelligent, and he has no proof of that.
1.) I know it was tounge and cheek. I was just having some fun with it.
There are universal right and wrongs but you don't need a book to know those. Everyone knows them. You can feel them.
I guess that's why I believe in the Holy Spirit. I feel that God is in everyone of us and guides us if we let him.
I haven't read the old book in a while. Vould you give me examples where God orders a man to kill and lets him go though with it, or where God orders a war?
To me this shows that Jesus knew there would be a time where the roles would get reversed for some and there would be instances where the woman would be head or equal to the head of the family. Based on what I've read and what I was told, nowhere in the Quran could you even make an argument for that because it makes it clear that the man is the head of the household. (Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd hate to restate this if it isn't true).<this is connected>Auxiliary? Are we talking about the same word that means something is not essential? What exactly is an auxiliary beluef of the Quran with regards to the fundmanetal belief of the Trinity? I hope you're talking about prayer and charity because if you're talking about one God vs the essence of God then your beliefs are just as fundamental as mine.
you are not challenging daily prayers.-I am not but I also don't see the need of praying. An all knowing being knows when I do things for God and knows that I love God.
you are not challenging charitable donations to the poor- I don't consider them a rule and don't feel they dhould be given unless you want to give. Otherwise it's not charity, it's guilt or sense of duty inspired by fear.
you are not challenging whether or not fasting is good; jesus fasted afterall.- Again, I'm not against it but don't see it as crucial either.
So are the fundamental beliefs that God exists. We have no proof but we advance the notion none the less.
Islam the basis for Christianity? I guess you're going by the notion that Islam was first but forgotten.
I debate the necessity of customs and traditions that plague nearly every religion. To me Christianity is not a church or book, but a state of mind and as long as you have the values that are essential to Christianity, the basic right and wrong, you are a Christian, whether you even know who Jesus is or was.
People have a hard time accepting what goes far against what they have been taught as right for so long. It is no easier for a muslim to accept the trinity than it is for an American to accept Islam. I just don't think it's hate that makes it hard for people to accept.
i dont accept islam cuz youre a bunch of fucking kooks
oh yeah and i hope u get disgusted by this and go jerk off to the koran
Quote from: J Bin Laden on February 27, 2006, 11:11:48 AMi dont accept islam cuz youre a bunch of fucking kookssounds about right
The real question is why many Arabs in the Middle East don't accept Christianity.Oops I forgot.......if they do they are thrown in jail.
Quote from: Lean Left on February 27, 2006, 11:11:48 AMi dont accept islam cuz youre a bunch of fucking kooksQuote from: Lean Left on February 27, 2006, 11:29:49 AMoh yeah and i hope u get disgusted by this and go jerk off to the koranWell what do we have here? Another bigoted WIGGER. Surprise, surprise. Quote from: ^ReLentLess^ on February 27, 2006, 01:05:41 PMQuote from: J Bin Laden on February 27, 2006, 11:11:48 AMi dont accept islam cuz youre a bunch of fucking kookssounds about rightAnd another one.Quote from: Real American on February 27, 2006, 03:14:24 PMThe real question is why many Arabs in the Middle East don't accept Christianity.Oops I forgot.......if they do they are thrown in jail.Oh shit, even the flag and all? Well I be damned, its the Grand Wizard himself!!!
I WENT TO STAPLES CENTER WEN I WAS WALKING MY GOLD RAG FALL OF MY POCKET AND THE GROUND WAS WET TO AND DIRTY MY RAG GOT DIRTY A LIL BIT PULL IT IT BACK AND MAKE SURE IT WOULD NOT DROP AGAIN ROCKING MY RAG AGAIN HOMIE 8
I see evidence of this everyday. Alot of white people I know, no matter how wrecked and destroyed their lives are, no matter how dumb and ignorant they are, they will never listen to anything an Arab would have to tell them. A white person would travel to the end of the Earth, frolicking to and fro, searching endlessly for something they will never find, but they would never think to ask an Arab about their religion.Even if they are face down in the gutter somewhere trying to get a drag off of a dirty cigarette butt, they will still consider themselves as being better than the most refined Arab.
Alot of white people I know,
the books provide guidance. teachers provide guidance. it's very easy to trick yourself into question, doubting and rejecting that which you feel is right. we can even argue the nature of what is right and wrong because i don't think we agree here.
so for the record, the quran does not challenge the notion of a holy spirit. it fully supports the notion of higher righteous and also malicious entities. some translations make direct reference to the/a holy spirit.the only difference between what you are saying and ideas supported by the quran is that the quran clearly states one creator, superior to all. holy spirits, angels/jinns...all clearly superior to humans, more devine to humans, but subordinate to ultimate one creator. the only point of contention between your statements and the quran is this insistence that the holy spirit and jesus are not just divine, but equal with god. as opposed to divine yet lesser creations of god.
a key example is the book of joshua. god orders joshua to conquer an insane amount of land, basically from egypt to iraq, including israel, jordan, lebanon, syria, iraq...etc. states that he is on joshua's side and none can defeat him. and thus a great israeli empire is founded. that story about the walls of jehrico crumbling down is basically a war god commands his people to undertake, and then assists them with, for example. that battle and others are all detailed in joshua.
To me this shows that Jesus knew there would be a time where the roles would get reversed for some and there would be instances where the woman would be head or equal to the head of the family. Based on what I've read and what I was told, nowhere in the Quran could you even make an argument for that because it makes it clear that the man is the head of the household. (Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd hate to restate this if it isn't true).<this is connected>Auxiliary? Are we talking about the same word that means something is not essential? What exactly is an auxiliary beluef of the Quran with regards to the fundmanetal belief of the Trinity? I hope you're talking about prayer and charity because if you're talking about one God vs the essence of God then your beliefs are just as fundamental as mine.the qu'ran says alot of things. what's most essential is that there is one god, and acceptance of this and submission to god's will is the one religion. and that is islam. denying that is catastrophic.additionally it prescribes the daily prayers, charitable donations...etc; because "you will be better for it". it also gives direction on handling issues such as contracts, marriages, inheritance...etc. the quran also presents the idea that there are multiple heavens, or multiple levels of heavenly reward, which represents how close one is to god; which reflects ones level of spiritual development.the qu'ran also states that there is no obligation in religion.when you put all these ideas together; it isn't that the qu'ran is commanding certain behaviours absolutely, but providing instruction that will help condition and facilitate the greatest amount of spiritual growth. thus it has it's core ideas:one god, submit to god's willimportant ideas:daily prayers, charitable donations...etc; which you will be better for adhering to...auxiliary ideas:dealing with maintaining a household and a community.when you mention your aversion to war and violence, the qu'rans position there is simple. injustice, oppression; these are things that are abhorrant to god. to engage in war in order to end oppression or injustice is to act in a manner consistent with god's will. for you to reduce everything to "violence" == "bad" is for you to deny the true nature of existence, to put too great of a value on human life which while precious is also temporary, and could be viewed as complicity in violating god's will.
clearly god does not need you to pray. you would be better off for praying as it is a form of worship, it keeps your mind on god, it facilitates your spiritual growth. some translations of the qu'ran mention meditating at night in addition to praying. it's better for your spiritual growth.
with christianity, noone is challenging the teachings of christ; however, if you insist upon advancing this notion of a trinity...then the fundamental beliefs of that trinity doctrine are in question.So are the fundamental beliefs that God exists. We have no proof but we advance the notion none the less.in the context of christian beliefs vs the quran, the acceptance of god is granted. the debate is about the nature of christ.
that is the very argument behind islam; and why abraham, moses, lot, jesus...etc are all considered muslims though they did not have a quran. except islam literally means "submission to god".now, i don't agree with your position 100% because it denies many possibilities, and takes a short sighted view of existence. but i agree with the gist of it.
i think your argument breaks down in that sense. infinite's point is that it is something other than the rejection of the ideas in the quran that prevents more americans from embracing islam.