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Quote from: Shallow on April 08, 2006, 07:14:24 AMJustice didn't take off until after the Black Album hit it huge. It was 2x platinum before, not bad, but in the 80s boom, noithing special. Since the Black Album was released it reached 7x platinum. Even Master of Puppets ended up selling 6 million after the Black album. Plus, One was pretty polished in the beginning of the song, which probably hooked a lot of kids.Quote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 12:47:26 AMQuote from: Shallow on April 06, 2006, 07:45:26 AMIf you count the goofballs in the 80s like Motley i'll actually give motley some credit, i mean apart from vince neil's voice, they were actually a very talented bandtommy lee-excellent drummermick mars-had some awesome riffs and solos.....one fine piece of work that stands out is "god bless the children of the beast"nikki sixx-wrote ALOT of those songs hate their image, but you can't really deny them as artists on their core earlier albumsI don't hate Motley, I'm just saying that most don't consider them metal.like who? they might have been poppy but they've ALWAYS been associated with metal
Justice didn't take off until after the Black Album hit it huge. It was 2x platinum before, not bad, but in the 80s boom, noithing special. Since the Black Album was released it reached 7x platinum. Even Master of Puppets ended up selling 6 million after the Black album. Plus, One was pretty polished in the beginning of the song, which probably hooked a lot of kids.Quote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 12:47:26 AMQuote from: Shallow on April 06, 2006, 07:45:26 AMIf you count the goofballs in the 80s like Motley i'll actually give motley some credit, i mean apart from vince neil's voice, they were actually a very talented bandtommy lee-excellent drummermick mars-had some awesome riffs and solos.....one fine piece of work that stands out is "god bless the children of the beast"nikki sixx-wrote ALOT of those songs hate their image, but you can't really deny them as artists on their core earlier albumsI don't hate Motley, I'm just saying that most don't consider them metal.
Quote from: Shallow on April 06, 2006, 07:45:26 AMIf you count the goofballs in the 80s like Motley i'll actually give motley some credit, i mean apart from vince neil's voice, they were actually a very talented bandtommy lee-excellent drummermick mars-had some awesome riffs and solos.....one fine piece of work that stands out is "god bless the children of the beast"nikki sixx-wrote ALOT of those songs hate their image, but you can't really deny them as artists on their core earlier albums
If you count the goofballs in the 80s like Motley
Quote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 02:50:08 PMQuote from: Shallow on April 08, 2006, 07:14:24 AMJustice didn't take off until after the Black Album hit it huge. It was 2x platinum before, not bad, but in the 80s boom, noithing special. Since the Black Album was released it reached 7x platinum. Even Master of Puppets ended up selling 6 million after the Black album. Plus, One was pretty polished in the beginning of the song, which probably hooked a lot of kids.Quote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 12:47:26 AMQuote from: Shallow on April 06, 2006, 07:45:26 AMIf you count the goofballs in the 80s like Motley i'll actually give motley some credit, i mean apart from vince neil's voice, they were actually a very talented bandtommy lee-excellent drummermick mars-had some awesome riffs and solos.....one fine piece of work that stands out is "god bless the children of the beast"nikki sixx-wrote ALOT of those songs hate their image, but you can't really deny them as artists on their core earlier albumsI don't hate Motley, I'm just saying that most don't consider them metal.like who? they might have been poppy but they've ALWAYS been associated with metalMost people I know associate them with Hair Metal, and I even knoe people that say GnR is more hard rock than metal, and Appetite is more metal to me than anything Motley released.And let's say I agree that One was less polished (I don't just mean production, but in song writing and arrangement to), the fact still remains that the old Metallica albums didnt take off in sales until after the polished sound won them over.And Trauma, you can still have a melody and be hard; Paranoid for example. Nirvana was hard and they had melody. Now if wre talking death metal ad the vocalist just screaches then I don't see that becoming huge, but a song like Welcome to the Jungle could work in any day and age.
Quote from: Shallow on April 09, 2006, 09:38:56 AMQuote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 02:50:08 PMQuote from: Shallow on April 08, 2006, 07:14:24 AMJustice didn't take off until after the Black Album hit it huge. It was 2x platinum before, not bad, but in the 80s boom, noithing special. Since the Black Album was released it reached 7x platinum. Even Master of Puppets ended up selling 6 million after the Black album. Plus, One was pretty polished in the beginning of the song, which probably hooked a lot of kids.Quote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 12:47:26 AMQuote from: Shallow on April 06, 2006, 07:45:26 AMIf you count the goofballs in the 80s like Motley i'll actually give motley some credit, i mean apart from vince neil's voice, they were actually a very talented bandtommy lee-excellent drummermick mars-had some awesome riffs and solos.....one fine piece of work that stands out is "god bless the children of the beast"nikki sixx-wrote ALOT of those songs hate their image, but you can't really deny them as artists on their core earlier albumsI don't hate Motley, I'm just saying that most don't consider them metal.like who? they might have been poppy but they've ALWAYS been associated with metalMost people I know associate them with Hair Metal, and I even knoe people that say GnR is more hard rock than metal, and Appetite is more metal to me than anything Motley released.And let's say I agree that One was less polished (I don't just mean production, but in song writing and arrangement to), the fact still remains that the old Metallica albums didnt take off in sales until after the polished sound won them over.And Trauma, you can still have a melody and be hard; Paranoid for example. Nirvana was hard and they had melody. Now if wre talking death metal ad the vocalist just screaches then I don't see that becoming huge, but a song like Welcome to the Jungle could work in any day and age.hair metal is still metal....will smith is pop rap but he's still a hip hop artistcheck out the new magazine of hit parader.....that metal magazine and it has the all time top metal acts....and they list both guns n roses and motley crue as metal........and that's the magazine that prides itself on exploding acts like slipknot and all those overly hardcore metal bandstrue metallica saw huge number from their back catalouge after the black album hit, but "....and justice for all" was a HUGE album with virtually no promotion.....no radio play and .....until they finally released the video for 'one' no mtv play....and debuted very high on the billboard charts, went platnum plus, got nominated for grammies, all over the cover of many music magazine, ect. they went from being as big as crooked i is now with master of puppets to about as big as ludacris/lil jon with ...and justic for all, then when the black album hit they were on some eminem/50 cent times 5 statusand trauma , melody is something that pleasing to the ear, some people hear 'yellow submarine" and think mother goose, others think 'wow that is the shit' .....some people listen to rob zombie and think wow what the hell is this muffled devil bull shit , others think "wow this is the shitto say hard core artist ignore melody is ignorant...if they ignored melody then they'd just be throwing random low notes together ......but , and this is fact, bands like earlier metallicam dimmu borgir, children of bodom are closer to the like of mozart and bethoveen than the beatles and the stones
Nice try, but you're wrong. I love it when you guys give me simple little sentences like I'm not aware of that. OH, you mean that melody doesn't have to be "Yellow Submarine"? Who the fuck said it did? Here's a simple test. And leave Rob Zombie out of it, he's a diamond in a genre full of cubic zirconias.Which is more melodic? Yellow Submarine, or Pantera? Which is the general public going to appreciate more? We're talking about success, and making a 'comeback', we're not talking about what one small populace of the world likes, and we're not talking about text book definitions of melody, rhythm and song structure, I'm talking about what is the focal point of the song? Melody, or a discernable melody that the average listener is going to hear is all but thrown out the window in hard rock, distorted guitars hide any melody, thundering drums and bass hide any melody, triple time time signatures hide any melody. Hard rock will never make a comeback because it's sloppy and overdriven and most people aren't going to listen to that shit.Since you mentioned Yellow Submarine: Nice Rhythm, Nice melody that gets stuck in your head that you can sing along to. It'll be more popular than any hard rock song 500 years from now, because it's just more pleasant to the ear. Ultimately, you're talking about public opinion when you say will something make a comeback. ... well, not if the public doesn't want to hear it, and they frankly don't want to hear a bunch of people running around the stage beating on shit yelling as loud as they can. To prove my point, even modern rock is losing listeners every day to fuckin' COUNTRY. Country music is the fastest growing genre in the u.s., rock is the fastest sinking. Anything exciting or fun that rock ever had is dead.
We're talking about successand making a 'comeback',
distorted guitars hide any melody, thundering drums and bass hide any melody, triple time time signatures hide any melody.
and we're not talking about text book definitions of melody, rhythm and song structure, I'm talking about what is the focal point of the song? Melody, or a discernable melody that the average listener is going to hear is all but thrown out the window in hard rock
Hard rock will never make a comeback because it's sloppy and overdriven and most people aren't going to listen to that shit.
Since you mentioned Yellow Submarine: Nice Rhythm, Nice melody that gets stuck in your head that you can sing along to. It'll be more popular than any hard rock song 500 years from now, because it's just more pleasant to the ear.
To prove my point, even modern rock is losing listeners every day to fuckin' COUNTRY. Country music is the fastest growing genre in the u.s., rock is the fastest sinking. Anything exciting or fun that rock ever had is dead.
Quote from: Don Jacob on April 10, 2006, 03:51:30 AMQuote from: Shallow on April 09, 2006, 09:38:56 AMQuote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 02:50:08 PMQuote from: Shallow on April 08, 2006, 07:14:24 AMJustice didn't take off until after the Black Album hit it huge. It was 2x platinum before, not bad, but in the 80s boom, noithing special. Since the Black Album was released it reached 7x platinum. Even Master of Puppets ended up selling 6 million after the Black album. Plus, One was pretty polished in the beginning of the song, which probably hooked a lot of kids.Quote from: Don Jacob on April 08, 2006, 12:47:26 AMQuote from: Shallow on April 06, 2006, 07:45:26 AMIf you count the goofballs in the 80s like Motley i'll actually give motley some credit, i mean apart from vince neil's voice, they were actually a very talented bandtommy lee-excellent drummermick mars-had some awesome riffs and solos.....one fine piece of work that stands out is "god bless the children of the beast"nikki sixx-wrote ALOT of those songs hate their image, but you can't really deny them as artists on their core earlier albumsI don't hate Motley, I'm just saying that most don't consider them metal.like who? they might have been poppy but they've ALWAYS been associated with metalMost people I know associate them with Hair Metal, and I even knoe people that say GnR is more hard rock than metal, and Appetite is more metal to me than anything Motley released.And let's say I agree that One was less polished (I don't just mean production, but in song writing and arrangement to), the fact still remains that the old Metallica albums didnt take off in sales until after the polished sound won them over.And Trauma, you can still have a melody and be hard; Paranoid for example. Nirvana was hard and they had melody. Now if wre talking death metal ad the vocalist just screaches then I don't see that becoming huge, but a song like Welcome to the Jungle could work in any day and age.hair metal is still metal....will smith is pop rap but he's still a hip hop artistcheck out the new magazine of hit parader.....that metal magazine and it has the all time top metal acts....and they list both guns n roses and motley crue as metal........and that's the magazine that prides itself on exploding acts like slipknot and all those overly hardcore metal bandstrue metallica saw huge number from their back catalouge after the black album hit, but "....and justice for all" was a HUGE album with virtually no promotion.....no radio play and .....until they finally released the video for 'one' no mtv play....and debuted very high on the billboard charts, went platnum plus, got nominated for grammies, all over the cover of many music magazine, ect. they went from being as big as crooked i is now with master of puppets to about as big as ludacris/lil jon with ...and justic for all, then when the black album hit they were on some eminem/50 cent times 5 statusand trauma , melody is something that pleasing to the ear, some people hear 'yellow submarine" and think mother goose, others think 'wow that is the shit' .....some people listen to rob zombie and think wow what the hell is this muffled devil bull shit , others think "wow this is the shitto say hard core artist ignore melody is ignorant...if they ignored melody then they'd just be throwing random low notes together ......but , and this is fact, bands like earlier metallicam dimmu borgir, children of bodom are closer to the like of mozart and bethoveen than the beatles and the stonesIf you count it as metal then fine. I'm not saying I don't so much as I was saying many peope don't like to associate Poison with Metal. If Hair Metal counts then of course metal was huge at one point, before Metallica ever became huge. And when I mean huge I don't mean a grammy nod (a lot of no name shit acts that aren't popular get grammy nods, and the hard rock award was probably only made up because of the success of Appetite), I mean huge as in taking the world by storm and Metallica didn't do that until '90-'91. But WhiteSnake and friends did it well before that.
the hard rock award was probably only made up because of the success of Appetite),
van halen I sold a lot also