Lifestyle > Train of Thought
do the muslims on this board...
nibs:
--- Quote from: Chief on April 06, 2006, 11:16:57 PM ---yeah but the quran, just like the bible, are said to be the word of God, through Jesus, or word of Allah through Mohammed... so how could someone accept a book which promotes pedophilia ? like yeah, the bible has alot of mythodology, but dont you have to accepts mythology to accept religion ? there is no scientific fact of the after-life, or anything for that matter...
and i'm not dissing, i'm just asking questions, if i dont ask these questions, how am i supposed to know ?
--- End quote ---
look, read your bible. in the bible, moses sins and is punished by god and never reaches the land of canaan after he led the israelites out of egypt and after he received the ten commandments. are you going to write off the ten commandments, judiasm and christianity because moses sinned later in life? it's in the bible.
i am not prepared to call muhammad a sinner. aisha? it looks like that marriage was politically motivated. the age of the woman has been debated. the woman's father was the first caliph, so clearly noone in the community had a problem with the relationship, most importantly not her parents.
Jip:
--- Quote from: nibs on April 07, 2006, 02:28:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chief on April 06, 2006, 11:16:57 PM ---yeah but the quran, just like the bible, are said to be the word of God, through Jesus, or word of Allah through Mohammed... so how could someone accept a book which promotes pedophilia ? like yeah, the bible has alot of mythodology, but dont you have to accepts mythology to accept religion ? there is no scientific fact of the after-life, or anything for that matter...
and i'm not dissing, i'm just asking questions, if i dont ask these questions, how am i supposed to know ?
--- End quote ---
look, read your bible. in the bible, moses sins and is punished by god and never reaches the land of canaan after he led the israelites out of egypt and after he received the ten commandments. are you going to write off the ten commandments, judiasm and christianity because moses sinned later in life? it's in the bible.
i am not prepared to call muhammad a sinner. aisha? it looks like that marriage was politically motivated. the age of the woman has been debated. the woman's father was the first caliph, so clearly noone in the community had a problem with the relationship, most importantly not her parents.
--- End quote ---
you can spurt out rubbish about pollitics
but after they got married, or maybe be before, he put his penis into a minor
nibs:
--- Quote from: Jip on April 07, 2006, 02:55:08 PM ---you can spurt out rubbish about pollitics
but after they got married, or maybe be before, he put his penis into a minor
--- End quote ---
the age has been debated. the families did not oppose it. i don't know the culture to know how out of place this was, i doubt the chick was 9 because apparently she had an arranged marriage before muhammad that had fallen through.
i don't know how old this chick was.
she had another marriage arranged that had fallen through
i'm skeptical that she was 9 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy
--- Quote ---ccording to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab. If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).
Tabari reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her betrothal to Muhammad, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia. Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, p. 38.
Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, p. 50.
According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, p. 377.
According to Abd ar Rahman ibn Abi Zannad, Aisha was 10 years younger than her sister Asma. (Siyar a´lâm an-nubalâ', adh-Dhahabî, Vol. 2, p. 289, Mu'assat ar-Risâla, Beirut, 1992). That is also confirmed by Ibn Kathir (al-Bidâya wa-n-nihâya, Ibn Kathîr, Bd. 8, S. 371, Dâr al-Fikr al-´Arabî, al-Dschîza, 1933). Virtually all other historical reports also agree in this matter. Ibn Kathir also reports that Asma was present when her son died in 73 AH and she herself died 5 days thereafter (other reports differ slightly, giving between 5 and 100 days between the deaths of the two). At the time of her death she was 100 years old (al-Bidâya wa-n-nihâya, Ibn Kathîr, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dâr al-Fikr al-´Arabî, al-Dschîza, 1933). This is also confirmed by Ibn Hadschar al-´Asqalânî who reports that she died in 73 or 74 AH at the age of 100 years. (Taqrîb at-tahdhîb, Ibn Hadschar al-´Asqalânî, p. 654, Bâb fi-n-nisâ', harfu l-alif, Lucknow). But this means, of course, that Asma was 27 or 28 years old at 1 AH and the 10 years youger Aisha already 17 or 18, so when Muhammad and Aisha started to live together she was already 19 or 20.
--- End quote ---
they also mention the evidence that she was 9 so you can see both sides to the argument. i don't know enough to say muhammad had relations with a 9 yr old. her father was clearly comfortable with the relationship, so either the entire community accepted marriage of 7 year old girls, or she was older than 7.
Jip:
--- Quote from: nibs on April 07, 2006, 03:04:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jip on April 07, 2006, 02:55:08 PM ---you can spurt out rubbish about pollitics
but after they got married, or maybe be before, he put his penis into a minor
--- End quote ---
the age has been debated. the families did not oppose it. i don't know the culture to know how out of place this was, i doubt the chick was 9 because apparently she had an arranged marriage before muhammad that had fallen through.
i don't know how old this chick was.
she had another marriage arranged that had fallen through
i'm skeptical that she was 9 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy
--- Quote ---ccording to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab. If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).
Tabari reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her betrothal to Muhammad, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia. Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, p. 38.
Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, p. 50.
According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, p. 377.
According to Abd ar Rahman ibn Abi Zannad, Aisha was 10 years younger than her sister Asma. (Siyar a´lâm an-nubalâ', adh-Dhahabî, Vol. 2, p. 289, Mu'assat ar-Risâla, Beirut, 1992). That is also confirmed by Ibn Kathir (al-Bidâya wa-n-nihâya, Ibn Kathîr, Bd. 8, S. 371, Dâr al-Fikr al-´Arabî, al-Dschîza, 1933). Virtually all other historical reports also agree in this matter. Ibn Kathir also reports that Asma was present when her son died in 73 AH and she herself died 5 days thereafter (other reports differ slightly, giving between 5 and 100 days between the deaths of the two). At the time of her death she was 100 years old (al-Bidâya wa-n-nihâya, Ibn Kathîr, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dâr al-Fikr al-´Arabî, al-Dschîza, 1933). This is also confirmed by Ibn Hadschar al-´Asqalânî who reports that she died in 73 or 74 AH at the age of 100 years. (Taqrîb at-tahdhîb, Ibn Hadschar al-´Asqalânî, p. 654, Bâb fi-n-nisâ', harfu l-alif, Lucknow). But this means, of course, that Asma was 27 or 28 years old at 1 AH and the 10 years youger Aisha already 17 or 18, so when Muhammad and Aisha started to live together she was already 19 or 20.
--- End quote ---
they also mention the evidence that she was 9 so you can see both sides to the argument. i don't know enough to say muhammad had relations with a 9 yr old. her father was clearly comfortable with the relationship, so either the entire community accepted marriage of 7 year old girls, or she was older than 7.
--- End quote ---
whether the father liked it or not, or whether she was 9 or 19, the guy was supposedly about what 35 years older than her?
hes a peado anyway u look at it
nibs:
--- Quote from: Jip on April 08, 2006, 09:17:47 AM ---whether the father liked it or not, or whether she was 9 or 19, the guy was supposedly about what 35 years older than her?
hes a peado anyway u look at it
--- End quote ---
you are simply looking for reasons to criticize the prophet. 19 is acceptable by any standard. there are child kings and queens in the bible, it's often used to unite families, tribes and nations. not only was this marriage politically motivated, aisha was almost without question of an acceptable age ~19.
why do you insists on critizing the prophet?
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