Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Easter?
jeromechickenbone:
Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
If you're so secure in your religion, why are you always worried about what the next man is doing? Ever heard of live and let live? I'm sure on your holy days, you feel really good or whatever. So who gives a fuck? If you're so all knowing and really at peace as you repeatedly claim, you wouldn't be tortured by these things as you are.
I honestly think you are one of the more deeply confused individuals on these boards.
nibs:
--- Quote from: Jrome The Marauder on April 16, 2006, 06:05:03 PM ---Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
--- End quote ---
most christian holidays do have pagan origins, so asking people their opinions on these holidays isn't necessarily an intolerant question. the catholic church hijacked and redefined many pagan holidays as a way of attracting christian converts.
there are several christian sects that do not support these holidays. jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate easter. seventh day adventists (i attended this church as a youth) acknowledge the pagan origins, but see no real harm in celebrating christmas or easter...etc. even if it is a pagan holiday that has adapted pagan symbolism; it's not like they start worshipping the pagan gods.
i don't see the harm in questioning the holiday, or asking people why they celebrate it. down in mexico they took the week off and were going to church everyday. that can't be a bad thing.
why isn't the effect to which the catholic church shaped the current direction of christianity, and the motivation behind those actions a valid question? the catholic influence represents an interesing shift in focus, as many of the early christians largely focused on understanding and following christ's teachings; yet the catholic church shifted that focus to a celebration of christ, and to a lesser extent mary. the easter holiday is a direct reflection of this.
i don't see this as an issue of intolerance.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: nibs on April 17, 2006, 06:14:00 AM ---
--- Quote from: Jrome The Marauder on April 16, 2006, 06:05:03 PM ---Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter? I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever. This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others. So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?
--- End quote ---
most christian holidays do have pagan origins, so asking people their opinions on these holidays isn't necessarily an intolerant question. the catholic church hijacked and redefined many pagan holidays as a way of attracting christian converts.
there are several christian sects that do not support these holidays. jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate easter. seventh day adventists (i attended this church as a youth) acknowledge the pagan origins, but see no real harm in celebrating christmas or easter...etc. even if it is a pagan holiday that has adapted pagan symbolism; it's not like they start worshipping the pagan gods.
i don't see the harm in questioning the holiday, or asking people why they celebrate it. down in mexico they took the week off and were going to church everyday. that can't be a bad thing.
why isn't the effect to which the catholic church shaped the current direction of christianity, and the motivation behind those actions a valid question? the catholic influence represents an interesing shift in focus, as many of the early christians largely focused on understanding and following christ's teachings; yet the catholic church shifted that focus to a celebration of christ, and to a lesser extent mary. the easter holiday is a direct reflection of this.
i don't see this as an issue of intolerance.
--- End quote ---
You were raised an adventist? When did you coonvert and why? (just wondering)
nibs:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 17, 2006, 06:38:51 AM ---You were raised an adventist? When did you convert and why? (just wondering)
--- End quote ---
i was never baptised into the adventist church, so technically i never left the adventist church, i simply stopped attending.
i had never found the bible satisfying, at the time the old testament represented laws of a god that seemed too personified and too whimsical with his wishes. if god created everyone, why then does he have a chosen people; and chooses to destroy others? why does he nitpick and punish his prophets (moses) for seemingly trivial reasons?
i was also dissatisfied with the new testaments portrayal of christ. why is it that the apostles and early disciples that interacted with christ directly, had family members raised directly, enjoyed christ's direct presence and miracles; yet his later followers have nothing but faith in the older stories to go on. that dichotomy disturbed me. if christ were god; how could anyone in his direct presence deny him? witnessing miracles directly is far greater evidence than having faith in a story. there is a significant difference between the original apostles and disciples, and his current followers, with the advantage being to the former
the old testament does little more than scare people with the ill-tempered whimsical god. the new testament provides the perfect arguments to subjugate people to oppressive governments as all the world is evil, is controlled by evil, and the world is falling apart as evil nations will rise up to dominate and persecute the true believers. but this bleak outlook doesn't matter as the physical world is meaningless.
both messages seemed unsatisfactory to me.
in contrast, studying the qu'ran has caused me to have a greater appreciation for both the old and new testament.
in terms of the old testament:
the nature of god is not whimsical, and his desire is not to force man to obey laws robotically. rather, the nature of god is unappreciable, "god's will" or the natural order of things is one that favors peace, harmony, and for man to recognize it's true nature and worship his creator.
god does not have a chosen people; god's people are actually those people that recognize that there is one creator and worship that creator. prophets and messengers have visited different people throught time with the sole intention of disseminating knowledge and restoring that natural order.
in terms of the new testament:
this life is important for more than simply preparing for the afterlife. this life should be enjoyed, and as this life is a test; part of that test is acting to preserve the natural order of things by standing up to oppression and injustice. in this sense, islam is empowering for the oppressed. as christ (in the qu'ran) is a prophet; and not a god to be worshipped: one need not obsess over whether or not miracles of christ can be proven. that is largely irrelevant. rather, pay attention to what christ taught and what he said. even if all the miracles attributed to christ were false, his message and the example of his life are still true.
people continue to accuse islam of being intolerant towards other religions; yet studying the qu'ran reveals the exact opposite; as god has sent various messengers to different peoples and several prophets as well; if one were to inspect other religions (beside the major three) for the key principles of monotheism, prayers, charity, final judgement for this life...etc; one would have to respect those principles as true, even if the framing is slightly different. just as the qu'ran states that islam existed before the qu'ran was delivered to the prophet muhammad; one would have to conclude that other people's across the world have had some enlightened messenger that would have conveyed these principles.
to conclude, the teachings in the adventist church were unsatisfactory for me; and the qu'ran provides me a greater understanding and appreciation for the bible, religion and life.
Shallow:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So when did all this start happening for you? How old were you and how were you introduced to Islam and the Quran?
P.S. I never felt the Gospel was a way to stay oppressed it just states you shouldn't commit evil to fight evil, but that no one can really be perfect so just make sure you are sorry when you do wrong and try harder to keep from doing it the next time.
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