The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)

[M Dogg™]

As far as Angle being the best since 1990; we're limiting it to US wrestlers right?

yes... always trying to "reassure" that I don't mean something else... 

Well it's a big claim to say that since 1990 you haven't seen any matches better than the ones Kurt Angle has put on recently. I mean the Kobashi/Misawa matches or the Mutoh/Tenryu matches are pretty impressive. No matter what style of wrestling you prefer. Atlantis vs Villano III from 2000 was also very incredible. I personally have a KENTA match from a few years ago that I think is better than anything I've seen from Angle.

I mean these are matches that present a story for me that gets me do into it, even though I don't and can't understand the history of the feud. I can only imagine how much better they are for those that know the backstory.

To see those matches, I either had to be a tape trader in the 90's (did fall into some matches but I was never a tape trader) or I had to look at hours of YouTube (which I do, but not ofter enough to say I'm an expert) so of course I mean US... 

What are you rolling your eyes for? How am I supposed to know what you have access to or what you watch. You can make an argument that Angle is as good as Kobashi. I'd strongly disagree but I wouldn't scoff at the idea. It's not like comparing Cena with Flair. I was just wondering what frame of reference you were using when you made the claim about Angle's matches.

Personally I feel some of the very early 90s Flair matches, mid 90s Hart matches, mid 90s HBK matches, a few Owen Hart matches are just as good or better as what Angle was doing in the early to mid 2000s.

And some of those mid card cruiser weight matches from mid 90s WCW were phenominal. Especially the stuff connected with Malenko. Whether it was with Eddie, Jericho, or Ultimo Dragon. They may not have had the prestige or hype as a WWF main event with Angle but the Wrestling was just as good or better.

See Flair early 90's was starting to fade, Hart and HBK had some classics, but they could touch Angle/Benoit, or Angle/Lesner. Owen had great matches, but not at Angle's level. Eddie, Jericho, Dragon had great, great matches, I mean truly classics. But not better than Angle, I'm sorry. Angle had the whole package, he had the skill, he was by far the best wrestler that had ever come onto my TV screen, and you'll find no bigger fan of Eddie and the cruiserweights than me. But Angle was such a natural that he could not be touched on the mat, charisma, psychology, connecting with the crowd. No one was better.

[Shallow]

See Flair early 90's was starting to fade, Hart and HBK had some classics, but they could touch Angle/Benoit, or Angle/Lesner. Owen had great matches, but not at Angle's level. Eddie, Jericho, Dragon had great, great matches, I mean truly classics. But not better than Angle, I'm sorry. Angle had the whole package, he had the skill, he was by far the best wrestler that had ever come onto my TV screen, and you'll find no bigger fan of Eddie and the cruiserweights than me. But Angle was such a natural that he could not be touched on the mat, charisma, psychology, connecting with the crowd. No one was better.

Of course Flair was fading. I'm not doubting that, but Flair/Savage was still an incredible match. Flair/Sting at the 90 Bash. Flair/Vader in 93. Flair had the single great Rumble performance in history in 92. Put these on anyone else's resume and they are among that wrestler's best work, Angle included.

Calling Angle by far the wrestler is a joke. He might be the best of the era, but by far better than Benoit, HBK, Hart? C'mon, and Owen's matches with Bret and HBK are just as good as Angle's best stuff. The difference is Angle's best stuff also came with a great push and were treated with more prestige and for that come across as better.

If Angle and Lesnar had the exact same match as they had at Mania, on Heat when both were starting out, it'd be just as good a match, but it wouldn't get near the recognition. If Owen had been given a proper push after the Nugget angle and had been turned to join the Corperation and face Austin at WM15 in a 30+ minute main event at Mania you would have seen how truly great Owen was. Watch his match with Liger. Owen could do things neither Angle or Benoit were capable of. He had everything a main event heel needed, except for a push.

By far? Give me a break.

[M Dogg™]

See Flair early 90's was starting to fade, Hart and HBK had some classics, but they could touch Angle/Benoit, or Angle/Lesner. Owen had great matches, but not at Angle's level. Eddie, Jericho, Dragon had great, great matches, I mean truly classics. But not better than Angle, I'm sorry. Angle had the whole package, he had the skill, he was by far the best wrestler that had ever come onto my TV screen, and you'll find no bigger fan of Eddie and the cruiserweights than me. But Angle was such a natural that he could not be touched on the mat, charisma, psychology, connecting with the crowd. No one was better.

Of course Flair was fading. I'm not doubting that, but Flair/Savage was still an incredible match. Flair/Sting at the 90 Bash. Flair/Vader in 93. Flair had the single great Rumble performance in history in 92. Put these on anyone else's resume and they are among that wrestler's best work, Angle included.

Calling Angle by far the wrestler is a joke. He might be the best of the era, but by far better than Benoit, HBK, Hart? C'mon, and Owen's matches with Bret and HBK are just as good as Angle's best stuff. The difference is Angle's best stuff also came with a great push and were treated with more prestige and for that come across as better.

If Angle and Lesnar had the exact same match as they had at Mania, on Heat when both were starting out, it'd be just as good a match, but it wouldn't get near the recognition. If Owen had been given a proper push after the Nugget angle and had been turned to join the Corperation and face Austin at WM15 in a 30+ minute main event at Mania you would have seen how truly great Owen was. Watch his match with Liger. Owen could do things neither Angle or Benoit were capable of. He had everything a main event heel needed, except for a push.

By far? Give me a break.

It's true... oh it's damn true, by far the best wrestler of his era.

[Shallow]

See Flair early 90's was starting to fade, Hart and HBK had some classics, but they could touch Angle/Benoit, or Angle/Lesner. Owen had great matches, but not at Angle's level. Eddie, Jericho, Dragon had great, great matches, I mean truly classics. But not better than Angle, I'm sorry. Angle had the whole package, he had the skill, he was by far the best wrestler that had ever come onto my TV screen, and you'll find no bigger fan of Eddie and the cruiserweights than me. But Angle was such a natural that he could not be touched on the mat, charisma, psychology, connecting with the crowd. No one was better.

Of course Flair was fading. I'm not doubting that, but Flair/Savage was still an incredible match. Flair/Sting at the 90 Bash. Flair/Vader in 93. Flair had the single great Rumble performance in history in 92. Put these on anyone else's resume and they are among that wrestler's best work, Angle included.

Calling Angle by far the wrestler is a joke. He might be the best of the era, but by far better than Benoit, HBK, Hart? C'mon, and Owen's matches with Bret and HBK are just as good as Angle's best stuff. The difference is Angle's best stuff also came with a great push and were treated with more prestige and for that come across as better.

If Angle and Lesnar had the exact same match as they had at Mania, on Heat when both were starting out, it'd be just as good a match, but it wouldn't get near the recognition. If Owen had been given a proper push after the Nugget angle and had been turned to join the Corperation and face Austin at WM15 in a 30+ minute main event at Mania you would have seen how truly great Owen was. Watch his match with Liger. Owen could do things neither Angle or Benoit were capable of. He had everything a main event heel needed, except for a push.

By far? Give me a break.

It's true... oh it's damn true, by far the best wrestler of his era.

But not by far since 1990. He is easily the best major promotion wrestler who started wrestling after 2000 (or November 1999, whatever). Now if you count ROH then no way in hell is any Angle match out of the league of Joe/Punk 1 or 2, and a whole bunch other Samoa Joe, CM Punk, American Dragon etc matches. Better maybe, as good sure, but better by far? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

And if you watch CM Punk vs Joe unfold and then watch the second match and think any wrestling could be far and away better than that then you simply don't know wrestling or are lying to yourself and just being stubborn.

[Sikotic™]

20 years (I don't think amateur years count)?? Dude did you even see the matches or let alone watch TNA?? Of course Angle is a ton better than Hardy but Hardy held his own. Angle is one of the best, period. Hell maybe the best ever (whole package). Angle>>>insert name here, & you could still say Kurt carried the match. I didn't see anyone bitchin until Hardy went to TNA. Stop it.

I'm just saying, since 1990 I have yet to see a wrestler better than Kurt Angle. Of course I could go back but in 1989 Flair and Steamboat had those great matches so I stopped the look back there. Anyways, I have watch TNA, crappy product but I still watch it. As I said, I like the Hardy's, but Jeff is not on Angles level and Angle has made a stick like Kevin Nash look good.

Oh hell yeah Kurt is alot better, like I said maybe the best ever (atleast today he's the best). But still Hardy handled his own in their 2 singles matches, just saying. & why simce 1990, I don't get that part??

You keep bringing up his two matches with Angle, but what about the others? The majority of them are sloppy and full of botches on Jeff's part. He even fucks up the swanton more than ever before not to mention he killed Anderson's main event push with that sloppy chair shot to the head.

Its obvious that I'm not his biggest fan, but at least Jeff was crisp and his matches looked much cleaner in his WWE days. Now he's just getting sloppy

[Mo Z. Dizzle]

MVP Released

World Wrestling Entertainment has come to terms on the release of WWE Superstar MVP as of December 2, 2010. WWE wishes MVP the best in all future endeavors.


From MVP's Twitter account:
"We all have many dreams. Realizing one sometimes prevents you from realizing another. Decisions must be pondered & made ! No need for alarm. I did not get fired . I asked for & received my release. I felt it was time to go international & freshen things up."

[MontrealCity's Most]

They dropped the ball big time with this guy... Shelton Benjamin, Matt Morgan.

[Shallow]

I didn't see much of him, but I hated the gimmick.

Personally I'd like to see him go to TNA and play up on a WWE is racist angle. I don't know if it'll work or not, but if he's up there calling Vince and Linda racist I'd watch just for that. Go under his real Alvin Burke Jr name and say he was given Montel Vontavious Porter because Alvin Burke wasn't "black enough" and told to play into black stereotypes of showboating athletes. This is not an idea to get him over, but rather an idea for my own personal entertainment.

[Sikotic™]

I didn't see much of him, but I hated the gimmick.

Personally I'd like to see him go to TNA and play up on a WWE is racist angle. I don't know if it'll work or not, but if he's up there calling Vince and Linda racist I'd watch just for that. Go under his real Alvin Burke Jr name and say he was given Montel Vontavious Porter because Alvin Burke wasn't "black enough" and told to play into black stereotypes of showboating athletes. This is not an idea to get him over, but rather an idea for my own personal entertainment.

Throw Cryme Tyme into the mix and you might be on to something.

[MontrealCity's Most]

I didn't see much of him, but I hated the gimmick.

Personally I'd like to see him go to TNA and play up on a WWE is racist angle. I don't know if it'll work or not, but if he's up there calling Vince and Linda racist I'd watch just for that. Go under his real Alvin Burke Jr name and say he was given Montel Vontavious Porter because Alvin Burke wasn't "black enough" and told to play into black stereotypes of showboating athletes. This is not an idea to get him over, but rather an idea for my own personal entertainment.

Throw Cryme Tyme into the mix and you might be on to something.

and the pope

[Shallow]

I didn't see much of him, but I hated the gimmick.

Personally I'd like to see him go to TNA and play up on a WWE is racist angle. I don't know if it'll work or not, but if he's up there calling Vince and Linda racist I'd watch just for that. Go under his real Alvin Burke Jr name and say he was given Montel Vontavious Porter because Alvin Burke wasn't "black enough" and told to play into black stereotypes of showboating athletes. This is not an idea to get him over, but rather an idea for my own personal entertainment.

Throw Cryme Tyme into the mix and you might be on to something.

and the pope

But that would make TNA look racist. Pope would have to be the guy feuding with them, defending the swagger he has.

[Sikotic™]

Sexual Chocolate Mark Henry would be a nice addition.

[Shallow]

Sexual Chocolate Mark Henry would be a nice addition.

You know if you really added all these old black WWE guys going all the way back to Vick the Slick and Koko B Ware and shot it in a doc style like they do those interviews after impact and just let these guys tell real stories from backstage and just coat it with super seriousness you could really have some fun. Booker T could tell the story about how Vince insisted he get to call Booker a nigger on TV.

Remember the Simpsons episode where Homer is accused of molesting the baby sitter? I'd shoot it like that. You might even get CNN to pick it up.

[Sikotic™]

Final Resolution was actually a decent PPV effort from TNA. MCMG vs. Gen Me was great as usual. AJ Styles continues to impress and Doug Williams proved to me that he is a solid wrestler as well (didn't really care for his work before).

I just have a hard time watching Impact because in all honesty the writing of the storylines are so terrible and inconsistent that its almost insulting to the intelligence. It's a TV-14 show and it shows less continuity in its story telling than WWE which is targeting towards kids.

Anyways, after a dry spell, TNA seems to have delivered at Final Resolution.

[O.G A.Geesta'z]

fill me in on whats going on in TNA i havent got to watch it in a while