Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
Sikotic™:
--- Quote from: 7 on May 02, 2006, 08:12:26 AM ---
this aint basketball, it's not about competing!
--- End quote ---
but it gets their dicks hard fighting over something no one can ever prove.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: nibs on May 02, 2006, 11:02:02 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on May 02, 2006, 10:07:54 AM ---The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.
The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted.
--- End quote ---
you've actually strengthened infinite's argument. "catholic" was a preexisting word, a word representing a principle. there are numerous theories to how paul blended pagan rituals and beliefs with judiasm and used jesus as the central character, replacing other mythical characters with jesus. this amalgamation of paganism came to be known as catholicism, as catholicism became a huge umbrella incorporating principles supported by the followers of christ; paul's distortions of the teachings of christ; as well as pagan rituals of the time.
additionally, it's been documented that the teachings of paul contradicted the teachings of james, jesus brother.
this isn't infinite's crazy idea; there are books written on the matter. many of these ideas have arisen from interpretting the dead sea scrolls.
whether or not other religions referred to themselves as "catholic" i do not know; infinite will need to cite sources on that. but clearly it was a pre-existing word that was adopted for their "church".
--- Quote ---In fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible.
--- End quote ---
actually the phrase "catholic church" had been used as early as 107 ad; by saint ignatius of antioch
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htm
the catholicity of the Church (Smyrn., c. viii); the infallibility of the Church (Philad., c. iii; Ephes., cc. xvi, xvii); the doctrine of the Eucharist (Smyrn., c. viii), which word we find for the first time applied to the Blessed Sacrament, just as in Smyrn., viii, we meet for the first time the phrase "Catholic Church", used to designate all Christians
so the phrase "catholic church" had been around before constantine.
--- End quote ---
I'm sure the word was around ans used to describe the universal aceeptance of the Church since there was much debate in the early times as to who wasa real apostle and who was skewing the message, so they came up with a universal system. What I meant was since the 16th century saying you are catholic was not a term used. You just said Christian. Today it implies Christian and as aseeen asa Religion it self by some (Infinite).
Infinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.
nibs:
--- Quote from: Shallow on May 02, 2006, 12:31:10 PM ---Infinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.
--- End quote ---
i agree with you that infinite has not proven his suggestion that the "catholics" were a preexisting pagan religion.
at the same time, i believe infinite's broader argument that catholicism has blended the teachings of christ with pagan beliefs is an accurate charge against the catholic church. a charge supported by facts uncovered through research; a charge many protestant christian sects have also levied against the catholic church; and a charge born out and supported by inconsistencies within catholic doctrine and actual biblical scripture.
while we both agree that infinite has not substantiated his argument against the origin of the usage of the phrase "catholic church"; i would be surprised if you disagreed about the suspect nature of the catholic church and doctrine itself; which is the larger issue here.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: nibs on May 02, 2006, 01:02:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on May 02, 2006, 12:31:10 PM ---Infinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.
--- End quote ---
i agree with you that infinite has not proven his suggestion that the "catholics" were a preexisting pagan religion.
at the same time, i believe infinite's broader argument that catholicism has blended the teachings of christ with pagan beliefs is an accurate charge against the catholic church. a charge supported by facts uncovered through research; a charge many protestant christian sects have also levied against the catholic church; and a charge born out and supported by inconsistencies within catholic doctrine and actual biblical scripture.
while we both agree that infinite has not substantiated his argument against the origin of the usage of the phrase "catholic church"; i would be surprised if you disagreed about the suspect nature of the catholic church and doctrine itself; which is the larger issue here.
--- End quote ---
You won't hear an argument in favour of the Catholic Church from me. I'm raised Orthodox and take that a bit further with my personal beliefs.
And For the record; the only issue here for Infinite is to get people riled up by insulting the validity of their religion. I could spend countless reading material from Christian sources about Islam and it's pagan origins, or various other conspiracy theories and post them one after another but I have no intention in insulting Muslims and have no desire to tell muslims they are wrong because I can't prove it, like Infinite can't prove otherwise. The only way I'll spend any time doing something like that is if God himself comes to me and tells me the absolute truth and to spread it with out conviction. But that hasn't happened yet.
Real American:
The word Catholic means universal.
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