Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
7even:
--- Quote from: Chief on May 02, 2006, 08:04:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: nibs on May 02, 2006, 07:02:18 AM ---
--- Quote from: Chief on May 02, 2006, 04:18:07 AM ---didnt mohammed do the same thing ?
--- End quote ---
muhammad didn't claim to be starting a new religion. muhammad stated that islam was the original religion and that his predecessors were also muslims.
--- End quote ---
ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...
--- End quote ---
to justify things in religion, you often have to wriggle around, re-define, cloud the sky and shit.
I used to be a pain in the ass towards religious people, but now I just hold the liberal position that everybody has the right to have a certain attitude without noone to bitch about it, as long as he aint hurting anyone because of his attitude.
Fuck it, if religion is what makes ppl happy, more power to them.
that doesn't mean you should feel superior because you think your faith is "better".
this aint basketball, it's not about competing!
RXL:
Why do you keep making these threads?
nibs:
--- Quote from: Chief on May 02, 2006, 08:04:37 AM ---ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...
--- End quote ---
we are getting off topic here. infinite was suggesting that catholicism had pagan origins; and asking if people see a problem with this, as most of modern mainstream christianity derives from catholicism.
whether or not muhammad borrowed an "old" name for his "new" religion is irrelevent, as the "old" religion isn't some pagan religion. muhammad embraces the "old religion".
do catholics embrace their pagan roots in a similar manner?
--- Quote from: 7 on May 02, 2006, 08:12:26 AM ---to justify things in religion, you often have to wriggle around, re-define, cloud the sky and shit.
I used to be a pain in the ass towards religious people, but now I just hold the liberal position that everybody has the right to have a certain attitude without noone to bitch about it, as long as he aint hurting anyone because of his attitude.
Fuck it, if religion is what makes ppl happy, more power to them.
--- End quote ---
for the most part i believe you are correct.
at the same time people should be willing to defend what they believe in. this isn't some sort of unfair assault; if infinite has questions...why not simply answer the questions? if people wish to challenge infinite on his beliefs i'm sure he's ready to defend those.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Hajj Abdul Infinite Ibrahim Islam Abu Muhammad Uthman on May 02, 2006, 12:12:57 AM ---I am stating historical fact here.
The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome. After the popularity of Jesus had reached Europe and became prevelant amongst the people, Constantine decided at the Council of Nicea that they would co-opt Jesus into their religion, and still keep the same name. This, by the way, was about 300 years after Jesus died.
--- End quote ---
The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted. Of course it isn't universally accepted and the Greek Church is the Orthodox Church and the Roman Church is the Catholic Church. The Greek takes the claim of the original doctrine while the admittedly altered Catholic Church takes the claim of the universally accepted doctrine. In laments terms; the Orthodox believe that follow the religion according to its roots and how it was established by Paul and Peter and the Catholics belive the Pope is the successor and has the ability to act as rule maker and change what he sees fit to change.
Once again Infinite your bias stupidity has exposed itself as a simple minded attack on that which you don't believe in personally. You didn't just state fact as you claimed to. You stated a false assumption with the intent to undermine the Christian Religion. This only works on stupid people that can't read well or research information. In fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible. You may want to try and use unbiased athiest inspired sources to get information with out an agenda. Using hello-islam.com or whatever it is you use probably isn't the best place to find info on the history of Christianity since they would have a reason to fabricate (much like I wouldn't use Christain websites as an authority for what I read on Islam).
nibs:
--- Quote from: Shallow on May 02, 2006, 10:07:54 AM ---The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.
The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted.
--- End quote ---
you've actually strengthened infinite's argument. "catholic" was a preexisting word, a word representing a principle. there are numerous theories to how paul blended pagan rituals and beliefs with judiasm and used jesus as the central character, replacing other mythical characters with jesus. this amalgamation of paganism came to be known as catholicism, as catholicism became a huge umbrella incorporating principles supported by the followers of christ; paul's distortions of the teachings of christ; as well as pagan rituals of the time.
additionally, it's been documented that the teachings of paul contradicted the teachings of james, jesus brother.
this isn't infinite's crazy idea; there are books written on the matter. many of these ideas have arisen from interpretting the dead sea scrolls.
whether or not other religions referred to themselves as "catholic" i do not know; infinite will need to cite sources on that. but clearly it was a pre-existing word that was adopted for their "church".
--- Quote ---In fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible.
--- End quote ---
actually the phrase "catholic church" had been used as early as 107 ad; by saint ignatius of antioch
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htm
the catholicity of the Church (Smyrn., c. viii); the infallibility of the Church (Philad., c. iii; Ephes., cc. xvi, xvii); the doctrine of the Eucharist (Smyrn., c. viii), which word we find for the first time applied to the Blessed Sacrament, just as in Smyrn., viii, we meet for the first time the phrase "Catholic Church", used to designate all Christians
so the phrase "catholic church" had been around before constantine.
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