It's May 11, 2024, 08:09:02 AM
didnt mohammed do the same thing ?
Quote from: Chief on May 02, 2006, 04:18:07 AMdidnt mohammed do the same thing ?muhammad didn't claim to be starting a new religion. muhammad stated that islam was the original religion and that his predecessors were also muslims.
Quote from: nibs on May 02, 2006, 07:02:18 AMQuote from: Chief on May 02, 2006, 04:18:07 AMdidnt mohammed do the same thing ?muhammad didn't claim to be starting a new religion. muhammad stated that islam was the original religion and that his predecessors were also muslims.ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...
ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...
to justify things in religion, you often have to wriggle around, re-define, cloud the sky and shit.I used to be a pain in the ass towards religious people, but now I just hold the liberal position that everybody has the right to have a certain attitude without noone to bitch about it, as long as he aint hurting anyone because of his attitude. Fuck it, if religion is what makes ppl happy, more power to them.
I am stating historical fact here. The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome. After the popularity of Jesus had reached Europe and became prevelant amongst the people, Constantine decided at the Council of Nicea that they would co-opt Jesus into their religion, and still keep the same name. This, by the way, was about 300 years after Jesus died.
The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted.
In fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible.
this aint basketball, it's not about competing!
Quote from: Shallow on May 02, 2006, 10:07:54 AMThe name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted.you've actually strengthened infinite's argument. "catholic" was a preexisting word, a word representing a principle. there are numerous theories to how paul blended pagan rituals and beliefs with judiasm and used jesus as the central character, replacing other mythical characters with jesus. this amalgamation of paganism came to be known as catholicism, as catholicism became a huge umbrella incorporating principles supported by the followers of christ; paul's distortions of the teachings of christ; as well as pagan rituals of the time. additionally, it's been documented that the teachings of paul contradicted the teachings of james, jesus brother. this isn't infinite's crazy idea; there are books written on the matter. many of these ideas have arisen from interpretting the dead sea scrolls.whether or not other religions referred to themselves as "catholic" i do not know; infinite will need to cite sources on that. but clearly it was a pre-existing word that was adopted for their "church".QuoteIn fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible.actually the phrase "catholic church" had been used as early as 107 ad; by saint ignatius of antiochhttp://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htmthe catholicity of the Church (Smyrn., c. viii); the infallibility of the Church (Philad., c. iii; Ephes., cc. xvi, xvii); the doctrine of the Eucharist (Smyrn., c. viii), which word we find for the first time applied to the Blessed Sacrament, just as in Smyrn., viii, we meet for the first time the phrase "Catholic Church", used to designate all Christiansso the phrase "catholic church" had been around before constantine.
Infinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.
Quote from: Shallow on May 02, 2006, 12:31:10 PMInfinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.i agree with you that infinite has not proven his suggestion that the "catholics" were a preexisting pagan religion.at the same time, i believe infinite's broader argument that catholicism has blended the teachings of christ with pagan beliefs is an accurate charge against the catholic church. a charge supported by facts uncovered through research; a charge many protestant christian sects have also levied against the catholic church; and a charge born out and supported by inconsistencies within catholic doctrine and actual biblical scripture.while we both agree that infinite has not substantiated his argument against the origin of the usage of the phrase "catholic church"; i would be surprised if you disagreed about the suspect nature of the catholic church and doctrine itself; which is the larger issue here.