Islam : Cult?

[Don Jacob]

this is in response to all the countless threads infinite has been making twords christianity, in no way is this meant to offend or insult any other muslum poster. i'm just doing this to show infinite that it can easily go both ways


By Ali Sina (former muslum)



The following is a description of what cult is:   

A cult is a religious group with extreme beliefs and practices - beliefs that are often contrary to science and logic but they are believed as "obvious" truth by the cult members. 
The members of cults often isolate themselves from friends, family and society and use deceptive and unethical recruiting techniques
Use manipulative methods to control the minds of followers
Venerate a human leader or leaders
Recruiting work is performed by all of the members
People are not allowed to criticize the leader, the doctrine, or the organization, or read information that is critical of the cult.
Members are trained to reject and disbelieve criticism of the cult as lies from Satan.
Members spy on one another and report improper activities or comments to leaders.
Members are taught to suppress anything which might reflect negatively to outsiders about the cult.
The doctrine is absolutist and the ideology is internalized as "the Truth."
Members are told to avoid contact with ex-members or critics, even their relatives.
Members are instilled with a deep fear about ever leaving the organization, and anyone who does depart is of the devil and sometimes severely punished.
Members are emotional controlled and warned of being caught and punished.
Disciplinary action is administered by group leaders, which may involve excommunication for such things as questioning organization policy or doctrine.
People are encouraged to sacrifice education, career and family interests to server the interests of the cult.
Advocate socializing only with other members in the organization and avoiding outsiders.
The belief in apocalypse and Dooms Day.
[Source]

All these traits are present in Islam.

Islam claims to be a religion with strong devotion to Muhammad and a set of unsubstantiated doctrines presented by him. Monotheism is used as a pretext to exert absolute control over the believers, leaving them no chance to question or investigate alternative paths.
Muhammad forced his followers to leave their families (8:72) and gathered them in Yathrib. He said: “And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes”. He warned those who did not follow him, leaving behind their families, will be cursed by Allah and “their habitation will be hell”(4:97). Muhammad went as far as to order his followers to murder those Muslims who defected his barricade.(4:89)  In Yathrib he banished and killed the Jews who did not believe in him, thus eliminating the chance of his followers coming in contact with outsiders and being influenced by anyone. In this way he exerted absolute control over the lives and the minds of his followers. Jim Jones did the same. He called his town "Jonestown". Muhammad changed the name of Yathirb to Madinatul Nabi (Prophet’s Town)
He used manipulative methods to control the minds of his followers. These methods ranged from threat of hellfire, and promises of paradise, to exhaustive rituals of prayers and fasts, devised to numb the thought, and threat of physical punishment including execution and constant warfare, keeping his followers in perpetual state of agitation.
He established himself as the sole authority among his followers and the only source of guidance to the extent that they looked up to him for every detail of their lives, including how to dress, how to shave, how to pray and even how to urinate and how to clean after bowl movement. Ostensibly the worship was to God but effectively he was the only object of veneration of his followers and the only authority. Nominally God was to be obeyed but he was God's proxy, thus assuming the authority of God. 
All believers were asked to promote his cause through Jihad, propaganda or by giving generously from their wealth. 4:95, 9:20, 49:15, 61:11
The criticism of Muhammad and Islam was totally prohibited and if anyone dared to question him or his decisions, Omar swiftly unshielded his sword and threatened to slash the throat of the intrepid questioner forcing him to apologize. The message was sent in a very clear tone that no one must question Muhammad and his authority. 1400 years later, the message remains the same. If you question Islam you will be killed.
Muslims are told to dismiss any criticism of Islam as coming from Satan and they often avoid reading critical views about their Faith. I have received testimonies of apostates who confessed that at first when they came across this site they stopped reading it and dismissed it as the work of Satan. See this I myself never read any book critical of Islam and once frowned at a friend who expressed her curiosity about Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses. 
Muslims are encouraged to spy on each other and report any sign of dissent. Amr bil Maroof wa Nahi anil Munkir (Commanding to follow the religion and preventing from doing what is prohibited) is a tenet of Islam. Every Muslim is required to poke his nose in the private lives of others, spy on them and tell them what they should do and what they should not do. Every Muslim is an enforcer of religion and the moral police for others. 
Muslims suppress anything that might present Islam in negative light. Preserving the image of Islam is of utmost importance and Muslims lie with clarity of conscience to misrepresent their religion and make it look good. For example women in Islam are treated like animals and are considered as deficient in intelligence. Every Muslim knows that including the women, who blame the men for it but not the Islam. But they lie through their teeth bragging about the "elevated" status of women in Islam. Jihad means aggressive war to expand Islam. Every Muslim knows that. Yet all of them lie and say Jihad means "self defense". A couple of years ago I received a very angry email from a Muslim who cursed me for revealing the fact that Muhammad had slept with a 9-year old child and at the end he said “the damage is already done” and I will be certainly punished for what I had done. The fact that Muhammad slept with a child did not bother this Muslim but what bothered him was revealing this fact.     
Islam is extremely absolutist and Muslims believe that it is the only true religion. This “truth” however is not self evident. It is "true" because Muhammad said so.
Muslims are told to shun the apostates and the critics of Islam. New converts are often circled and are isolated from their non-Muslim family and friends. They are showered with love and receive a lot of emotional support until the brainwashing is complete.
Muslims are instilled with the fear of leaving Islam. This fear comes in two forms. One is the fear of Hell and of eternal punishment and the other is the fear of being caught and put to death by fellow Muslims, including their best friends and family.
Those who leave Islam must live in constant threat of being discovered and killed. In Muslims’ Comments section of this site you can see that Muslims often talk about this fear and say they pity me for having to look over my shoulders all the time and live in fear of being assassinated. The values are so distorted that they do not pity themselves for being the assassins but pity me for having to live in their fear. 
In Islam disciplinary action includes beating, maiming, stoning, beheading or jail. Excommunication is for minor offenses. The poet Ka’b and two others were excommunicated for fifty days and during that time no one spoke to them. Ka’b’s wife was told to leave him and wherever he went people ignored him as if he was invisible. All this, because he did not accompany Muhammad in the war of Tabutk.
Muslims are told to sacrifice their comfort, their wealth and including their lives to promote Islam. Young men are encouraged to leave their studies and work, wage Jihad, and commit suicide bombing to make Islam dominant. Family and even children are regarded as "tests" of the believers. To prove their loyalty to Allah, they must be able to forgo all these "worldly attachments" and get ready to sacrifice their lives in the cause of Islam. 
Muslims are discouraged to take friends from amongst the unbelievers even if these unbelievers are their kin. 3:28 They are told the unbelievers are najis (filthy) 9:28  and that the believers should not associate with them. 
The belief in the Day of Judgment and the Dooms Day is one of the pillars of the Islamic Faith.   
Based on the above, Islam is a cult. It is the biggest and the most successful cult. It practically reunites every feature of cult. Other cults may not be cultic in some of the above points. But Islam is cultic in every way and it would be a gross mistake to number it among religions just because 1.2 billion benighted people call themselves Muslims.

[WestCoasta]

fuck Islam being a cult

religion altogether is a god damn cult

[Real American]

Islam definitely has some cult like tendencies. One is the fact that they try to prohibit any criticism of the religion, usually through threats of violence like in the cases of the Mohhamed cartoon and also with Theo Van Gogh. They also make it illegal for other religions to compete for followers by making conversion punishable by death. They are just backwards.....

[Jip]

fuck Islam being a cult

religion altogether is a god damn cult

i hear that

[h cottie is bac-tive?]

i didnt even read the post past the first sentence b/c the first one is ridiculous

[J Bananas]

^are you or is someone you know a prisoner of islam?

[h cottie is bac-tive?]

^are you or is someone you know a prisoner of islam?

you need to get over ur islamaphobia. u hate and hate and hate, but dont care to learn about TRUE islam

[J Bananas]

can i get pills for it?

[h cottie is bac-tive?]

can i get pills for it?

idk i dont hate on religions

[J Bananas]

i dont negotiate with terrorists.........lol

[coola]

"Members are taught to suppress anything which might reflect negatively to outsiders about the cult. " this is a perfect example.

i think to understand religion in it's totality, first you must realise that no religion is perfect.

infinite may have a great understanding of the qu'ran, but he is blinded, by the fact that it's not a perfect religion. he is blindly following it, by thinking it is perfect.

[coola]

i didnt even read the post past the first sentence b/c the first one is ridiculous

ofcourse you didnt read it champ 

Muslims are told to dismiss any criticism of Islam as coming from Satan and they often avoid reading critical views about their Faith.

[nibs]

The following is a description of what cult is:  

let's work with the basic definition of a cult:
cult - (noun)
1a.  A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
1b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2.   A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

almost all religions start off as cults to some extent.  most if not all religions are founded around the "enlightened" teachings of one individual.  the only real distinction between a cult and a religion is typically whether or not the cult continues on after the founder is no longer active (dead, imprisoned...etc); and also if it reaches some critical mass.

throwing around the label of cult is largely a semantic argument on the usage of the word.  you look at the bible, abraham started a cult, moses restarted a cult, jesus started a cult, paul started a new cult around his interpretation of jesus...etc.

it's just a label.  appreciate the definition for what it is.  can a cult be based on true knowledge?  can a cult be good?  the label "cult" doesn't answer any of those questions; and those are the real issues.

we can look at ali sina's description of cult--like attributes of islam.  
half of them are redundant.  redundant in that core beliefs of islam are defined as cult-like.  believing in "a last day" is just that; if you believe in a last day and that there is judgement for one's actions; then islam is the way.  the qu'ran can provide direction.  
part of these attributes that are criticized are attributes that are necessary to hold together the core beliefs.  the same attributes are found in society in general, and is largely how order and respect for the rule of law is maintained within modern societies.  

some of those claims are completely outrageous and unfounded:

Muslims are encouraged to spy on each other and report any sign of dissent.

the qu'ran states directly do not be suspicious of one another.
sura 49:12
O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: And spy not on each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it...But fear God: For God is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

that's just a poorly researched argument.

the argument that islam is absolutist is unfounded:

The doctrine is absolutist and the ideology is internalized as "the Truth."
Islam is extremely absolutist and Muslims believe that it is the only true religion. This “truth” however is not self evident. It is "true" because Muhammad said so.

this is false.  the qu'ran states directly that true believers among the christians and jews will also see heaven.  the qu'ran embraces other monotheistic religions that preserve the principles of islam.

sura 2:62
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

sura 5:69
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


who do we believe?  the text of the qu'ran or this guy's ideas?

the suggestion that the qu'ran engages in demagoguery to avoid criticism is also unfounded:

Members are trained to reject and disbelieve criticism of the cult as lies from Satan.

actually, within the qu'ran for the most part, it's only those that are malicious that are guided by evil jinns.the sceptism is condemned largely as it is a result of conjecture.  satan, evil jinn's...these attempt to lead people astray; but the criticism from disbelievers is typically associated with conjecture on their behalf.  

sura 6:116
And if thou obey most of those on earth, they will lead thee astray from ALLAH's way. They follow nothing but mere conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.

sura 10:34-5
Say, `Is there any of your associated-gods who guides to the truth ?' Say, `It is ALLAH alone Who guides to the truth. Is then HE Who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who finds not the way himself unless he be guided ? What, then, is the matter with you ? How judge ye ?'
And most of them follow only conjecture. Surely, conjecture avails naught against the truth. Verily, ALLAH is well aware of what they do.

this is not the sort of demagoguery that buddy is suggesting.  the qu'ran is telling it's followers to question and assess the source of the disbelievers ideas.  it's a message that demands critical analysis; and rejects fanciful, convenient and contrived ideas.   the exact opposite of what this guy is saying.

this guy clearly does not like muslims and resorts to slanderous rhetoric:

Muslims lie with clarity of conscience to misrepresent their religion and make it look good.

this is nothing but a slanderous statement.  amusing?  sure.  how can this sort of generalization be taken seriously?

the nature of islam itself and the status of the prophet muhammad are distorted:

Islam claims to be a religion with strong devotion to Muhammad and a set of unsubstantiated doctrines presented by him.

islam is a principle.
there are muslims that only follow the qu'ran and not hadith (which are the teachings and accounts of the prophet muhammad & associates).  there are muslims that don't even follow the arabic qu'ran.  if you look at noble drew ali and the moorish science temple (the basis for much of the noi); they actually have their own book (the circle 7 koran) that is basically "the principles of islam from the perspective of jesus" + direction by noble drew ali.  

gross blasphemy (from a qu'ranic disposition) is charged without basis:

Ostensibly the worship was to God but effectively he was the only object of veneration of his followers and the only authority.

this is simply a blasphemous and inflammatory statement.

the qu'ran states directly that muhammad is simply a prophet, no greater than other prophets...etc.  the characterizations regarding the devotion to the prophet muhammad are ill conceived.

contrast that with christianity where they worship their guy (jesus).  christians claim to believe in god, yet at the same time they worship a man.  jesus' own brother [james] did not worship him; yet he is still worshipped by many christians.  it reminds me of the rastafarians worshipping haile selassie while the ethopians never considered there king to be a god.  if you want to see an irrational devotion to a leader, look to the religion that worships a prophet; not the religion that states within it's holy text not to worship any prophets.

the real questions are "is islam good or bad"?  and "is islam true?".

i submit that islam is both good and true.  

i also submit that the teachings of christ are good and true; but paul, catholicism and derived religions have distorted those teachings and are both bad and false.

now we can analyze the qu'ran and debate it's goodness, or we can study the distortions that paul and the catholic church introduced to christianity and discuss the potential badness there.  

but the real issue is not what is cult-ish or cult-like; that is largely irrelevant; that is largely relying on negative stereotypes associated with cults.  so let's throw aside the labels, and analyze those connations directly on their merits.  i've submitted and maintain that those connotations are untrue, and unfounded when applied to islam.  

[nibs]

"Members are taught to suppress anything which might reflect negatively to outsiders about the cult. " this is a perfect example.

i think to understand religion in it's totality, first you must realise that no religion is perfect.

infinite may have a great understanding of the qu'ran, but he is blinded, by the fact that it's not a perfect religion. he is blindly following it, by thinking it is perfect.

2 corinthians 6:14-15
Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?

romans 16:17-20
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them.
For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.
For the report of your obedience has reached to all; therefore I am rejoicing over you, but I want you to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil.
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.


ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


here you have the bible saying the exact same thing this guy is criticizing the qu'ran for saying.  is he not also criticizing the bible then?

[Sikotic™]

Do you guys realize you can go back and forth with this shit for the rest of your lives and nothing productive will ever come out of it? Anybody ever take a history class?

And to think, I used to have hope in humankind


http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=109246.0
^ ya problem solver