Indiana Pacers Involved In Another Brawl...This Time In A Club!!!

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Probable-cause affidavit

Here are some excerpts from the six-page probable-cause affidavit in the Club Rio shooting based on police interviews. The affidavit was released Wednesday:

• The fight: "Eventually the yelling escalated into a fight. Mr. (Stephen) Jackson stated that a short, stocky (black male) punched him in the mouth. That subject was with the subject with the handicapped arm. Mr. Jackson stated that he had his handgun on his person at the time. . . . Mr. Jackson stated that he did pull out his handgun, but did nothing with it and then put it away."

• The fight: "Mr. (Scott) Collier (the DJ at Club Rio), stated that he heard five shots. He then went to the front door of the business and observed a handicapped (black male) being thrown to the ground and kicked."

• A second interview: In a second interview later on Oct. 6, "Mr. Jackson stated that he retrieved his handgun from his vehicle and then a fight started between some of Jamaal Tinsley's friends and the person with the short arm yelling 'dump.' "

• Story changes: In the second interview, Jackson "stated that he never got punched or hit. . . . However, Mr. Jackson admitted that he did kick the male with the handicapped arm as he was on the ground.

"Mr. Jackson stated that he then fired one, possibly two or three shots into the air to break up the fight. . . . He began to walk back towards where his vehicle was parked when he heard a speeding vehicle and then was struck."

• The other side: (Deon) Willford "stated that just before closing he went to his vehicle in the parking lot to let it warm up. He moved his vehicle from one parking place to another location near the entrance to Club Rio.

"(Willford) stated that his cousin Quentin (Willford) went to talk to a female in the parking lot. He then heard someone yell ''what are you doing talking to her. You can leave her alone.' . . . One male got out of a car and cocked his pistol. Quentin Willford became involved in an argument, which turned into a fight. Deon (Willford) observed Quentin on the ground being kicked and stomped."

Stephen Jackson timeline
• Nov. 19, 2004: Four months after joining the Pacers, Jackson punches a fan in the stands during a brawl that involves several players and fans near the end of a game between the Pacers and the Detroit Pistons at the Palace of Auburn Hills, Mich.

• Nov. 21, 2004: The NBA suspends Jackson for 30 games for his role in the brawl.

• Dec. 8, 2004: Oakland County, Mich., prosecutor charges Jackson with one misdemeanor count of assault and battery as a result of the brawl. Four other Pacers players are also charged.

• Feb. 2, 2005: Jackson verbally abuses an official over a foul called during a gameTeammates have to lead him off the court. The NBA suspends him for one game.

• Sept. 23, 2005: A Michigan judge sentences Jackson (along with Ron Artest and O'Neal) to one year of probation, 60 hours of community service and a $250 fine on misdemeanor assault and battery charges related to the November 2004 brawl. All had pleaded no contest to the charges.

• Dec. 23, 2005: In a game against the Cleveland Cavaliers, Jackson is ejected after arguing an official's call against Jamaal Tinsley. Three days later, the NBA fines Jackson $20,000 for making an obscene gesture after the ejection. He appeals the fine, saying he did not make the gesture.

• September 2006: Michael Ryan of Clarkston, Mich., files a lawsuit against Jackson (and Artest) alleging the two players assaulted him during the November 2004 brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

• Oct. 6, 2006: Jackson fires shots into the air in the parking lot at Club Rio, 5054 W. 38th St., at about 3 a.m. after police said he was assaulted by another club patron and hit by a car.

• Oct. 11, 2006: Jackson is charged with felony criminal recklessness, and battery and disorderly conduct, both misdemeanors, after admitting he kicked a man during the fight.
-- Compiled by The Star Library

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Stephen Jackson Could Face Jail Time

by Lang Whitaker

Yesterday in Indianapolis, Stephen Jackson was charged for his part in the strip club/gunshot mess from earlier in the week. With these charges, the police also released the police report for the entire incident, which the Indy Star has posted on their website here. They also have the audio of the 911 call that started the whole thing, which is worth listening to if only to hear the woman who called the report in describe Stephen Jackson as being “at least six feet tall.” You think?

Anyway, I spent the last hour combing through the police report. Below is the Cliff’s Note version of the police report.

1) Page One really just sets the scene. It also reminded me that had Stephen Jackson not fired a gun into the air five times, the police probably wouldn’t have been called — they were only there to respond to a call that someone was shooting a gun into the air. So without the gunshots, there’s a good chance we never even would have heard about all of this. Which makes me wonder: How much other stuff goes on that we never even hear about?

2) Jimmie Hunter was rolling with Stephen Jackson that night. (Trying to get in good with the vets?) Jamaal Tinsley was in a black SUV with someone else that hasn’t been identified.

3) Stephen Jackson “immediately” told the cops he had fired the shots and that he had a handgun with a valid Indiana license.

4) Jamaal Tinsley told the police that he had a gun in his car. He gave an officer the keys to his car and told the police that they could retrieve the gun. And wouldn’t you know it? While getting out the gun, and officer found a bag of “suspected” marijuana in the door’s pocket.

6) They also mention stopping Marquis Daniels in a white Bentley, but that’s the only time he’s mentioned.

7) One of the detectives talked to a guy who works in the club. This guy says there wasn’t any altercation inside the club, but there was a fight in the back parking lot. This dutiful employee tried to break it up but it “escalated.” He ends his appearance in the police report by saying he heard an engine, a thump and then observed a tall black male on the ground. “He then heard gunshots.”

8) Ah, Stephen Jackson himself. They read him his rights, he waived them. He agreed that nothing happened inside the club, but allows that the person who ran him over with the car might have “felt disrespected” because the Pacers crew ignored the driver while they were in the club. SJ left the club with Snap Hunter.

9) Here’s where it gets all surreal. Jackson says outside the club he was approached by “a small black male with a handicapped short arm.” This guy had one hand “in the back of his pants.” (The police don’t clarify, but I’m assuming it wasn’t his “handicapped short arm” behind him.) Weirder, SJ tells the police this little guy was yelling, “Dump!” over and over. Jackson thought this meant to shoot, and he started yelling back at the guy, and somehow this escalated until SJ got punched in the mouth by a “short stocky” guy. But isn’t everyone going to be short to Stephen Jackson?

10) Jackson says he had his handgun on him while all of this was happening, but he never mentions having gone to his car. So was he strapped the entire night?

11) Jackson and the short stocky guy fight. Then the guy hops into a car and drives it at Stephen, “which threw him over the vehicle and onto the ground.” He squeezed off four or five shots, Snap Hunter helped him up and then Snap threw the gun into SJ’s car.

12) The police interview Tinsley. His first name is spelled “Jamall” throughout the document. Not a lot of Pacers fans in the police department.

13) JT says they were in the club and someone ordered them drinks, but he doesn’t say who. Then, and this might be my favorite sentence of the year, “a black male with handcappied short arms started yelling about being a pimp and saying none of the Pacers have $500.”

14) No, I don’t know what “handcappied short arms” are either.

15) Tinsley says there was beef with the short guy and the stocky guy inside the club, because those two guys were causing problems with the dancers the Pacers had paid for. Tinsley agrees that the short guy was yelling out in the parking lot and had his hand in his waistband. He heard the gunshots but didn’t know where they came from.

16) Snap Hunter, your turn. He tells the exact same story as Jackson, and adds that he saw Jackson get hit by the car. Next!

17) Marquise Daniels was actually parked across the street from the other guys, and from across the street he saw a fight broke out and he saw Jackson get hit by the car. He was, however, “unsure if he heard any gunshots.” That’s it for Marquise Daniels — he’s never mentoined again.
18) Next comes the club’s DJ, who’s story is slightly different: He heard gunshots and came to the front door, where he “observed a handicapped black man being thrown to the ground and kicked.” He then saw Jackson get hit by the car and then heard more gunshots after that.

19) The police found a few bullets and tire marks, and the club’s video apparently shows Jackson being thrown from the car after being hit. That’s gotta hit YouTube soon.

20) After all this they take another statement from Jackson and this time they taped it. Jackson tells the same story again, this time slipping in that he did run to his car and grap his gun before the fight started. The fight started, and he now says he never got punched. He does allow that “he did kick the male with the handicapped arm when he was on the ground.” Man.

21) Jackson said he fired a gun into the air a few times to break up the fight, he got run over by the car, and then he fired a few more times.

22) I really like that Stephen was able to describe the car by one important detail: It had 26-inch wheels. He’s sure of that.

23) One day later they take statements from Daniels, Hunter, Tinsley and Tinsley’s friend. Guess who says the marijuana belongs to him. Go ahead…take a guess…right! The one guy who isn’t an NBA player. Sure is lucky for those guys. Whew!

24) Two days later, the police got a tip that the two suspects were in an apartment complex. They go over there and catch the guys, who turn out to be cousins, both with the last name Willford. The cops take ‘em in.

25) The guy they call Dino, who must be the stocky one, tells his side. He says nothing happened in the club, and then once they were outside all the Pacers Crew surrounded his cousin (who must be the guy with the handicapped arm). He says he saw the Pacers crew beating up his cousin, then heard gunshots. He jumped in his car and on the way out drove over the guy who was firing the gun. Apparently he left his cousin there to get beat up.

26) His cousin, who appears to be the guy with the handicapped arm, goes next. This must be Fingers. Fingers says he was leaving the club and trying to talk to a woman when Stephen Jackson came up to him and started yelling at him and waiving a gun around. He then fired into the air. Next thing Fingers knew, a bunch of guys had him on the ground and were kicking him. He looked up and saw Dino driving away. (Thanks, cuz.) He then — and this is great — says he got up and walked over to a pay phone, where he called a cab. Just like that it was over?

27) And that’s about it for the police report. They mention going to Dino’s Mom’s house and impounding the car, and then it ends.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Doc Rivers-
"Maybe I'm just too old to get the gun thing. Guys believe they need them. I don't. Maybe that's just me. It's amazing what's happening with guns. I've yet to hear a hero story with guns, about saving kids. The reason you won't hear it is because all the kids are asleep at 3 a.m."

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

If Jackson's found not guilty, team is left in a real bind

They need a conviction.
Not the Marion County Prosecutor's Office, although that would look good on Carl Brizzi's prosecutorial resume. No, the ones who really need Stephen Jackson to be convicted of the numerous charges leveled at him Wednesday are the Indiana Pacers -- team CEO Donnie Walsh and president Larry Bird, in particular -- thus doing for the organization what they should have done for themselves this summer.
If Jackson is convicted by a court of law -- as opposed to the court of public opinion, in which he has already been sentenced to death by lethal injection -- he's history. Suspended by the league, suspended by the Pacers, possibly gone to jail and likely gone from Indiana for good.
And if he's not convicted?
Great for Jackson.
But a nightmare for the Pacers.
At that point, the team, which has gone from model franchise to Trailpacers in just three strange and unfortunate years, will have another major mess on its hands.
It's this simple: They can't win back fans with Jackson on this roster.
At one point Tuesday, when it appeared Jackson might be painted as the victim and all of this might eventually blow over, I thought maybe this was salvageable.
Not anymore.
Even Jamaal Tinsley, apparently a bit player in the Club Rio scuffle, got booed Wednesday night at Conseco Fieldhouse.
Jackson has no chance at redemption here. He can eventually win in a court of law. He can't win in the court of public opinion.
If Jackson is ultimately exonerated, the Pacers will have no choice but to keep him on the roster. Sure, there's some vague language about moral turpitude and all of that in the basic player contract, but if a court of law finds him innocent, what case could the Pacers make for terminating his contract?
He stayed out past bedtime?
He hangs out with unsavory characters with film noir nicknames?
And how hypocritical would it be for the Pacers, the same ones who stuck by Ron Artest all those years, to suddenly find religion and cast out Jackson, a player they've long known to have self-control issues?
As long as Jackson is on this roster, a number of fans will never truly embrace this team. Is that right? Is that wrong? I tend to think it's slightly hysterical, and fails to give Jackson the opportunity to clear his name in a court of law, but I'm not the one paying big dollars for the season tickets.
While the facts of this case have changed pretty dramatically the last 48 hours, transforming Jackson from victim to serial bad guy, remember a few things before making a rush to judgment:
The prosecutor here, Brizzi, is in the middle of a re-election campaign, and if there's any Pacer who makes a perfect sacrificial lamb for a get-tough-on-crime guy, it's the almost universally lamentable Jackson.
And before we start shedding tears for "Fingers'' and "Dino'' -- the now-infamous Willford brothers who were involved in the incident -- please note that Quentin ("Fingers'') spent six years in prison for burglary, escape and dealing cocaine.
In situations like these, celebrity can be a double-edged sword.
The question has been asked why police didn't haul people into jail when the marijuana was found. Preferential treatment? Impossible to say. I've been told that in similar situations with regular Joes, police have acted in precisely the same way.
Now, though, you've got a prosecutor who, while he's doing his job, is also seizing a fabulous political opportunity. This may be one of those times when it's not a good thing being young, rich and famous. Or infamous.
"What's important is we treat everybody the same,'' Brizzi said Wednesday. "No matter their status, wealth or position.''
While all the focus has been on Jackson, it shouldn't be forgotten that Marquis Daniels, Tinsley and Jimmie "Snap'' Hunter played a role in this whole mess. They haven't been charged with anything, yet, but the police reported they found marijuana in Tinsley's car. Now, the Pacers don't have the power to say, "Fellas, let me introduce you to this little plastic cup,'' but the NBA has the power to follow up with random tests when a reasonable suspicion exists.
Even if one of Tinsley's friends is saying it's his pot -- and what are friends for, right? -- I would think the NBA would want to follow up by sending a drug-testing correspondent to town.
By now, you would have thought the noxious cloud that has covered this organization would have dissipated, if only a little. Wasn't Artest gone? Weren't Jackson and Tinsley swearing to be new men? Weren't the changes in the locker room supposed to alter the culture?
It's sad, really, how an organization once hailed as an NBA model has turned into a punch line. Walsh is a fundamentally good man whose greatest flaw is, he believes too much in people, leads with his heart, only to take it on the chin time and again.
"It's been heartbreaking, to be honest with you, because I always felt we had a good franchise and I was proud of that," Walsh said. "That's taken quite a hit in the last three years. Yeah, I feel very, very bad about that.''
Who could have imagined? After all those offseason changes, the most important Pacers addition is a middle-aged prosecutor with questionable hops.

[The Big Bad Ass]

Dumb mother fucker.

[WC Iz Active]

At this point the Indiana Pacers cant trade Jackson for equal value so that shouldnt be a option.  Missing the playoffs isnt a option w/ the Pacers so cutting Jackson makes no sense.  Also it makes no sense for the Pacers to want Jackson to get sentenced to jail time, I dont see any logic in that.  They need to hope he isnt convicted and deal w/ his poor attitude cause you cant deny he plays hard, he's tough and he's talented so there is no good in losing him for nothing.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

A different ballgame
Pacers GM Larry Bird has seen NBA change for the worse, and he has had front-row seat
 
October 17, 2006

INDIANAPOLIS -- Larry Bird doesn't quite know what to make of what's going on with his Indiana Pacers: Four players involved in a fight in which shots were fired outside a strip club at 3 a.m. during training camp, Stephen Jackson charged with a felony, Jamaal Tinsley with marijuana found in his car. Then, a few days later, police stopped a car registered to but not driven by Jermaine O'Neal and discovered marijuana.

Call it Hoosier Buffoonery.

 
It's not that Bird is exactly naive, having been in the NBA for more than a quarter of a century and traveled the world for the game he loves. But the Hall of Famer and Pacers general manager sometimes has to shake his head that this great game, basketball, isn't enough fun.

He has seen his share of grass, though only with his mower or 5-iron.

"I came in [the NBA] in '79 and I couldn't believe all the talk about drugs," Bird was saying last week in a quiet corridor of Conseco Fieldhouse after a local prosecutor announced charges against Jackson.

Bird is a bit softer around the middle these days, but his eyes are as hard and determined as ever. You look at Bird and you know he'd still hit that dagger of a jumper and smile knowingly.

"The first year, I never saw any drugs," Bird recalled. "I was there 13 years and never saw one guy using drugs. Sure, you'd always hear about a Micheal Ray (Richardson, banned in the mid-1980s for drug use). But you'd never see it. The guns, guys had them, but not around."

Perhaps it was because Bird was all basketball.

I remember what it was like to set up an interview if you wanted to get him alone for a story. Bird would say to meet him at the arena around 4 or 4:30 p.m.

"I'll be there shooting about 3," he'd say.

The game started at 7:30.

OK, OK, they don't make many like Larry Bird.

But isn't it enough to have a chance to play for a living instead of work? Isn't that the ultimate high? Not that Bird isn't standing by his players. He expects Jackson to return.

"We're around these guys and see the real person," Bird insisted, his unqualified support for Ron Artest this time last year still haunting him. "[Jackson has] never been arrested. He's a guy who called us (after turning down a $10 million offer from the Spurs) and wanted to play for us. He'd take (the minimum) $1 million. He wanted to be a part of this."

Instead, he's now in the middle of all this.

"It was about '86 or '87 and I was at this All-Star Game," Bird said. "[Pat] Riley came on the bus and it was just me and him alone. This was about when they started all that hip-hop stuff, and everything is real loud, and he says to me, `Our league is changing.' And I said, `You're telling me? Willie Nelson singing the national anthem, that's me.'"

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to run an NBA team?

Nothing of the sort.

This is a bad time for Bird's home state team. Since appearing in the 2000 NBA Finals in Bird's last season as coach and winning 61 games in his first season running the basketball operations (2003-04), the Pacers have had three consecutive seasons of embarrassment and disruption.

There was the November 2004 brawl in Detroit, followed by a lackluster 2005-06 season in which internal fissures were about to crack the solid foundation built over two decades.

And now this, shock and aw, shucks.

"I got the call at 6 a.m.," Bird was saying about the shooting incident. "It was [team Vice President] Rick Fuson. I thought something happened to Donnie [Walsh]."

 
Something did.

Walsh is the godfather of a franchise envied around the sports world for its success and compassion. Walsh has been at the wheel for two decades during which the Pacers have been steered to the playoffs, vital for a small-market team. The Pacers have made it 16 of the last 17 seasons after missing in nine of 10 before Walsh took over.

Few organizations have been more media-friendly thanks to Walsh, who is the first name in the unofficial NBA reporter's guidebook. When new reporters start in the NBA, they are told if they have questions to call Walsh. He routinely treats them like seasoned veterans.

And that's distant compared to his care for his players.

Walsh is under the impression everyone deserves a second chance, though lately his games of chance have crapped out with Artest and now Jackson. Walsh's contract expires after this season, and it's possible he will yield to Bird, who isn't about to allow Walsh's legacy to be diminished.

There have been whispers that Bird, whose post-playing career has been sprinkled with hiatuses, may be ready for another career timeout, that it may be time to retire to the big spread he recently purchased in southern Indiana. It's not the same game or the same guys.

"It's very frustrating," Bird admitted. "I've never been around anything like this. But I'm not a quitter. I could never think about leaving now. I would never do that. That would be the easy thing for anyone. I would never do that. I'm not like that."

Bird says he's intent on bringing the Pacers back to championship contention from this morass. Sure, like some awkward white guy and Indiana University dropout from Indiana State could become one of the dominant players in NBA history?

Oh, that's right.

"I've always said I've won championships outside Indiana," Bird noted. "I never won in college, never won in high school. I couldn't win as a coach. I just want to see this franchise get back to the Finals. If this team could just get the opportunity to win the thing, I could feel good about myself and retire."

So it starts again. The Pacers will wait out Jackson's legal fate, but Bird knows things have to change. Everything evolves.

"You've got to be long and athletic now," he said. "Push the ball. We played the slowdown, drop it in and stand around. Defenses are different now. If you are going to compete, you might as well get out there and push it a little bit."

So Bird, who has specialized in scouting thus far, continues to do his Bird-dogging.

"It's going to be harder now," he said. "We thought with the changes we made we were a better team. It's another bump in the road we've got to overcome. Red [Auerbach] always told me a year is not very long and the draft is really important.

"Also, you take a look at players who may not be playing hard for (a poor team) and if you know they've got talent, their mind-set can change. That's one of our challenges. Believe me, we'll be standing here next year and saying, `Where did the year go?'

"I remember talking to Slick (Leonard, then Pacers coach and general manager). They had the (1978) No. 1 pick and I met with him. He said, `Are you coming out of school?' I said I was going back to school. He said, `Gosh dang. It sure would help the franchise.' They traded the pick. They couldn't wait."

Bird's waiting, but he's not going to be patient.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Thanks, but no thanks?

By DWAIN PRICE
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

Sacramento Kings guard Ron Artest sympathized with his former Indiana Pacers teammate Stephen Jackson, who was involved recently in an incident outside an Indianapolis strip club, during which he was hit by a car and fired a gun into the air.

"I was just upset that the guy hit Stephen with that car," Artest said. "If I was there, I probably would have helped Stephen out."

In 2004, Jackson went into the stands at The Palace of Auburn Hills (Mich.) to help Artest, who was fighting with a fan.

[WC Iz Active]

I am sick of all the drama regarding the Pacers.  We always have loads of talent but shit off the court or in the stands I should say always screws us over and its the fans that get hurt.  This year should be great w/ JO, Harrington, Jackson, M. Daniels, and Granger but I'm sure some other drama will occur during the season that will fuck up our chances like usual.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Support for Jackson

Stephen Jackson has a clean slate in Cincinnati. Booed by some Pacers fans during the past two preseason games at Conseco Fieldhouse, he heard none Wednesday.
He led the Pacers with 13 points in 23 minutes -- 11 in the third period when the Pacers rallied to get within a point heading into the fourth.
Jackson said he has heard from NBA players and other friends since an incident at Club Rio two weeks ago, which resulted in pending felony charges against him.
Stephon Marbury, Mike Bibby and Baron Davis called. Former teammate Ron Artest tried to call and later left a message on Jackson's MySpace Web site page. Cleveland coach Mike Brown, who worked with Jackson in San Antonio and Indianapolis, also sent regards, as did the Spurs organization.
"It means a lot," Jackson said. "They really know me. They know I've never been in trouble in my life. I'm not a bad guy. I ain't no thug like everybody is trying to portray me to be."

[WC Iz Active]

Support for Jackson

Stephen Jackson has a clean slate in Cincinnati. Booed by some Pacers fans during the past two preseason games at Conseco Fieldhouse, he heard none Wednesday.
He led the Pacers with 13 points in 23 minutes -- 11 in the third period when the Pacers rallied to get within a point heading into the fourth.
Jackson said he has heard from NBA players and other friends since an incident at Club Rio two weeks ago, which resulted in pending felony charges against him.
Stephon Marbury, Mike Bibby and Baron Davis called. Former teammate Ron Artest tried to call and later left a message on Jackson's MySpace Web site page. Cleveland coach Mike Brown, who worked with Jackson in San Antonio and Indianapolis, also sent regards, as did the Spurs organization.
"It means a lot," Jackson said. "They really know me. They know I've never been in trouble in my life. I'm not a bad guy. I ain't no thug like everybody is trying to portray me to be."

Its great to see Jack getting support.  I love him as a player and I am so excited to watch him play this year. Cant wait for the season!!!