Lifestyle > Train of Thought
an immediate pull out of american troops will be disastrous
King Tech Quadafi:
--- Quote from: Hajj Abdul-Infinite...BANNED FOR SPEAKING TRUTH! on December 05, 2006, 01:25:52 AM ---Tech, I'm dissapointed in you man. Have you not learned from history what happens when Muslims call on the West (kuffar) to solve their problems?
Look, that's great if Iraq was always under an Islamic dynasty in the past. That's great if they used to be under the Ommeyed's or Abbasids or later the Safavids and then finally the Ottoman Empire. What's your point? The big problem I see was when the Ottoman fell and they fell under British colonialism. And since then it's been a bitter struggle to relieve themselves of servitude towards the West.
I'm not being naive or idealistic. As Muslims, do we depend on Allah for help or George Bush?
Look, if you want practical examples, Iran is a region next to Iraq that was once controlled by America and freed itself of foriegn intervention. Somalia is also a country that has recently began freeing itself of foriegn control. There are many examples. As far as the Sunni, Shiite thing, Muqtadr Al-Sadr is wise enough to get together with another prominent Sunni scholar and they could work something out. Look, there's been struggles between rival Islamic factions since the days of Aisha and Ali (raa), on into your country Afganistan in the early 90's after the Soviets left. But they didn't sell themselves off and beg for Jews and Christians to come in and handle their affairs. They worked it out, and some governments were better than others.
But you can't just give up and sell your soul to George Bush.
Look Tech.. now you officially can't complain about anything else that happens in Iraq from now on, because it was you that pleaded for Master Bush to stay there and save the poor Muslims.
--- End quote ---
lol...u cant compare revolutionary Iran or modern day Somalia to present day Iraq. There is no basis for a comparison. the poor muslims cant save themselves, understand this point. its not like everyone is gonna magically realize theyre all muslims, hold hands and sing kumbaya.
let me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?
virtuoso:
That depends Tech I have great suspicions that some of those mercs in the country are clandestine groups working on behalf of one of more of the governments, therefore is it really beyond the realms of belief that they are the ones planting the car bombs? Again the prime motivation for asking that besides the fact that this has been repeatedly exposed in declassified documents is, what the hell were SAS soldiers doing dressed as arabs attacking iraqi police? As another example, Kevin Fulton formerly a british agent who was planted inside the IRA as a bomb maker stated that whenever the "terrorists" had meetings the ranking "captains" were british intelligence. Indeed one of Sinn Feinns long serving and highest ranking members was exposed as a british agent last year and was shortly after assasinated. Yet the same argument had been put forward that the british soldiers needed to stay in Ireland to quell and contain and establish a peaceful Ireland when all the time they were controlling the situation. I am not implying that the IRA did not exist before british intelligence but it goes from being basically a rag tag bunch of pissed freedom fighters, to a deadly efficient group who could carry out bombings and shootings with real precision. It has come out in the news that many of the british intelligence informants within the IRA were the ones responsible for carrying out the assasinations but the response put forward by the british government was that the assets needed to blend in and not arouse suspicion so they were put in a difficult position. That is a plausible explanation and one I had kind of accepted until that is mr fulton's revelations.
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 01:32:05 AM ---
let me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?
--- End quote ---
All the Uncle Tom Iraqi's will be rooted out (Iraqi's that benefited off the occupation). Then eventually someone like Muqtada Al-Sadr will negotiate a deal for peace with an Amir (leader) of the Sunni Ulama.
King Tech Quadafi:
--- Quote from: Hajj Abdul-Infinite...BANNED FOR SPEAKING TRUTH! on December 06, 2006, 05:43:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 01:32:05 AM ---
let me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?
--- End quote ---
All the Uncle Tom Iraqi's will be rooted out (Iraqi's that benefited off the occupation). Then eventually someone like Muqtada Al-Sadr will negotiate a deal for peace with an Amir (leader) of the Sunni Ulama.
--- End quote ---
Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani, the highest Shia authority in Iraq gave his blessings to the govt in power there. LOL, whose gonna root him out?
Muqtada Al Sadr is going to renegotiate peace deals? Death Squad Al Sadr is gonna negotiate a peace deal , lol?
Who is the Amir of the Sunni Ulama. You do realize that the Shura Council, is an umbrella group representing various Sunni groups.
Who is gonna lead them? Sunni tribes from Anbar? BUT THEY CURRENTLY TAKE PART IN THE GOVT. So i guess they;ll already have been uprooted. Al Qaeda in Iraq? Theyre gonna negotiate peace deals? Those fucks play a huge role in the disastrous turn of affairs in secreterian relations.
You see Infinite, I would love for what u suggest to occur But it is a dream, a fantasy and does not resemble the reality on the ground. We have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils, not blatantly denounce everyting in the hopes some miracolous Good will occur.
Virtouso, I am well aware of what you are sayin. Im well aware of those 2 british agents in Basra. I am well aware of the at least 4 military bases the Americans are building. I am well aware of the historical success of colonial practices of divide and conquer. What Im sayin, is that the alternative is worse than what we re seein now, as bad as it is.
Iraq needs to be decentralized and split into autonomous regions.
virtuoso:
I wasn't trying to score points basically my point was if the overwhelming majority of these major bombings are being carried out by clandestine operational groups then the continuing presence there will lead to more clandestine operaions and thus an even greater upsurge in the genuine reprisal attacks that occur. Until a point where the agenda has been reached and the infrastructure and people there are totally broken. I am not being patronising but the analogy between wanting the coalition to stay despite their obvious tactics is like a loving dog being smacked upside the head kicked to the ground but still lovingly coming back to it's owner for protection and love.
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