It's May 21, 2024, 11:07:58 AM
Tech, I'm dissapointed in you man. Have you not learned from history what happens when Muslims call on the West (kuffar) to solve their problems?Look, that's great if Iraq was always under an Islamic dynasty in the past. That's great if they used to be under the Ommeyed's or Abbasids or later the Safavids and then finally the Ottoman Empire. What's your point? The big problem I see was when the Ottoman fell and they fell under British colonialism. And since then it's been a bitter struggle to relieve themselves of servitude towards the West. I'm not being naive or idealistic. As Muslims, do we depend on Allah for help or George Bush? Look, if you want practical examples, Iran is a region next to Iraq that was once controlled by America and freed itself of foriegn intervention. Somalia is also a country that has recently began freeing itself of foriegn control. There are many examples. As far as the Sunni, Shiite thing, Muqtadr Al-Sadr is wise enough to get together with another prominent Sunni scholar and they could work something out. Look, there's been struggles between rival Islamic factions since the days of Aisha and Ali (raa), on into your country Afganistan in the early 90's after the Soviets left. But they didn't sell themselves off and beg for Jews and Christians to come in and handle their affairs. They worked it out, and some governments were better than others. But you can't just give up and sell your soul to George Bush. Look Tech.. now you officially can't complain about anything else that happens in Iraq from now on, because it was you that pleaded for Master Bush to stay there and save the poor Muslims.
let me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?
Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 01:32:05 AMlet me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?All the Uncle Tom Iraqi's will be rooted out (Iraqi's that benefited off the occupation). Then eventually someone like Muqtada Al-Sadr will negotiate a deal for peace with an Amir (leader) of the Sunni Ulama.
Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani, the highest Shia authority in Iraq gave his blessings to the govt in power there. LOL, whose gonna root him out?
Muqtada Al Sadr is going to renegotiate peace deals? Death Squad Al Sadr is gonna negotiate a peace deal , lol?
Who is the Amir of the Sunni Ulama. You do realize that the Shura Council, is an umbrella group representing various Sunni groups.Who is gonna lead them? Sunni tribes from Anbar? BUT THEY CURRENTLY TAKE PART IN THE GOVT. So i guess they;ll already have been uprooted. Al Qaeda in Iraq? Theyre gonna negotiate peace deals? Those fucks play a huge role in the disastrous turn of affairs in secreterian relations.
You see Infinite, I would love for what u suggest to occur But it is a dream, a fantasy and does not resemble the reality on the ground. We have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils, not blatantly denounce everyting in the hopes some miracolous Good will occur.
Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 09:45:48 AMAyatollah Ali Al Sistani, the highest Shia authority in Iraq gave his blessings to the govt in power there. LOL, whose gonna root him out?-Ayotollah Sistani has only really given tacit approval to the government. Basically, the Shia' leadership is trying to be wise and play both sides of the fence by placing their people in power, and still maintaining an Iraqi version of Hezbollah style militia via Al-Sadr's Mehdi militia keeping credibility in the streets.Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 09:45:48 AMMuqtada Al Sadr is going to renegotiate peace deals? Death Squad Al Sadr is gonna negotiate a peace deal , lol?-That Al-Sadr death squad thing is blown out of proportion, it's US propaganda straight from CNN. Read any of Sadr's interviews, he mentions often that he blames America for the bombings and killings and he does not blame the Sunni's. Also, he sends out calls to all Muslims and Iraqi to oppose the occupation and calls for a full withdrawal of US troops.Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 09:45:48 AMWho is the Amir of the Sunni Ulama. You do realize that the Shura Council, is an umbrella group representing various Sunni groups.Who is gonna lead them? Sunni tribes from Anbar? BUT THEY CURRENTLY TAKE PART IN THE GOVT. So i guess they;ll already have been uprooted. Al Qaeda in Iraq? Theyre gonna negotiate peace deals? Those fucks play a huge role in the disastrous turn of affairs in secreterian relations.An Amir from the Sunni Ulama can not truly emerge at this time because obviously they are under siege at the moment from US occupation forces. If you want to talk about Al-Queda's supposed presence in Iraq; you should know that their supposed leader Usama's objectives have never been to battle Shia' and he has stated in interviews even prior to Sept. 11th that he felt that the big problem was American hegemony and American occupation of Muslim lands; and that that was to be dealt with first, and that once that was accomplished it would be easier to deal peacefully with what he considered lesser disputes such as Shia/Sunni disputes.Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 09:45:48 AMYou see Infinite, I would love for what u suggest to occur But it is a dream, a fantasy and does not resemble the reality on the ground. We have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils, not blatantly denounce everyting in the hopes some miracolous Good will occur.You've fallen victim to media propaganda. You should get rid of the television in your house. It was their objective always to dictate what the debate will be, and to offer two solutions, both of which will ultimately benefit them, and let the idiot public debate between the two solutions. Don't be so silly as to fall for that. -
Those Iraqis aren't brought up like you Infinite. They aren't like you. Just because they're muslims doesn't mean they have your reasoning. Matter of fact those Americans there are much more like you than those Iraqis, even if you'd never be happy with that, it is what it is.
first u say all iraqis who benefited from the govt should be uprooted, then you basically admit that shias have given their approval to this govt. Sadr, Sistani, Hakimi ALL support the govt. They may despise the occupation, but all of them ARE the govt. How are u going to uproot the Shia political institution?Zarqawi called Shias Kuffar. Al Qaeda in Iraq is vehemently against the Shia. And the other Sunnis are too weak/marginalized to confront Al Qaeda and when they do, they do it with the tacit support of Americans.'Sadr is at the very least turning a blind eye to the militias, that becames him complicit in their activities.Heres the thing, the ONLY FORM OF CO OPERATION BETWEEN SHIAS AND SUNNIS OCCURS AT THE GOVT LEVEL WITH THE AMERICANS INVOLVED. THIS IS SAD BUT TRUE.See, my thing is you dont have anything to offer, any concrete realistic practical solution. you expect the americans to leave tomorrow, and everyone is going to squash their beefs.
Quote from: virtuoso on December 04, 2006, 06:21:49 PMThe civil war was instigated by the good ol coalition because that is the perfect means of divide and rule they then pose as the saviours, as the people who need to stay to keep the sides apart. Meanwhile they keep exactly the same status quo in play as was witnessed under saddam hussein and plan to "partition" Iraq but it's all for the good of the people nothing to do with weakening the state. Lol these people have some nerve I will give them that very good at deceiving. The worse the situation becomes the better it is for the pentagon because it has made no secret of the fact that it wants to stimulate real terror http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/P2OG.pdf that is from the asian times in which the writer discusses P2OG a recently declassified document which discusses the need to stimulate real terror. You're an idiot. The U.S. has nothing to gain and everything to lose from the chaos in Iraq. We are losing soliders and billions of dollars everyday. A lot of politicians have already lost their jobs because voters are pissed off. So why would they want all the violence...to divide and conquer???
The civil war was instigated by the good ol coalition because that is the perfect means of divide and rule they then pose as the saviours, as the people who need to stay to keep the sides apart. Meanwhile they keep exactly the same status quo in play as was witnessed under saddam hussein and plan to "partition" Iraq but it's all for the good of the people nothing to do with weakening the state. Lol these people have some nerve I will give them that very good at deceiving. The worse the situation becomes the better it is for the pentagon because it has made no secret of the fact that it wants to stimulate real terror http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/P2OG.pdf that is from the asian times in which the writer discusses P2OG a recently declassified document which discusses the need to stimulate real terror.
I agree with Real American for once. At least in this regard. How can you seriously be that caught up in this conspiracy theory nonsense to think there is some group pulling strings to incite violence in Iraq.GWB would have loved to see Iraq go well. Unlike Cwalker I'm not an apologist for America. He wants to blame the Iraqis, but you blame the party that instigates that action - not the party the action was taken against. If we're such an amazing country, we should have known better, but we didn't. Blaming Iraq is like a parent blaming their 3 yr old for not knowing how to behave properly yet.But either way... virtuoso, people like you depress me. It's sad to see people deform their mental state so horribly. Get off the nonsense. And stop lurking around these conspiracy nut web sites. That's what's fuckin wit ur head... just like freerepublic.com be fuckin wit Real American.
Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 06, 2006, 09:45:48 AMfirst u say all iraqis who benefited from the govt should be uprooted, then you basically admit that shias have given their approval to this govt. Sadr, Sistani, Hakimi ALL support the govt. They may despise the occupation, but all of them ARE the govt. How are u going to uproot the Shia political institution?Zarqawi called Shias Kuffar. Al Qaeda in Iraq is vehemently against the Shia. And the other Sunnis are too weak/marginalized to confront Al Qaeda and when they do, they do it with the tacit support of Americans.'Sadr is at the very least turning a blind eye to the militias, that becames him complicit in their activities.Heres the thing, the ONLY FORM OF CO OPERATION BETWEEN SHIAS AND SUNNIS OCCURS AT THE GOVT LEVEL WITH THE AMERICANS INVOLVED. THIS IS SAD BUT TRUE.See, my thing is you dont have anything to offer, any concrete realistic practical solution. you expect the americans to leave tomorrow, and everyone is going to squash their beefs.Don't be a sell-out.Look, Vietnam had a civil war of it's own. Ho Chi Min's followers fought against Vietnamese who were benefiting from America's occupation. After America left, things didn't get worse, they got better. So what you are proposing is that the Iraqi's are somehow less human and less civilized than the Vietanamese.