Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Question for all Muslims!
J @ M @ L:
Being the messiah doesn't equate to being the "son of God".
sonofisis:
--- Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on December 19, 2006, 10:35:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: sonofisis on December 19, 2006, 09:30:19 PM ---
Man was born into Sin because of the deeds of our ancestors Adam and Eve correct? For this reason we are all cursed with Sin and have to either over come it through belief in Christ(the Christian way) or through submission to Allah's will(the Islamic way) correct? So if you believe this, can you agree that Christ wasn't of Sin since he was not of Adam?
--- End quote ---
youre making an incorrect assumption. muslims dont believe man was born of sin. we believe man is born pure and clean. there fore your entire post is baseless
--- End quote ---
I admit that to be an assumption, yet n still, how can you explain believing in his divine birth and not equate that to being God's son? Who was his father then? If you know how to read you'd see that was the basis to my whole argument/point, not sin..
--- Quote from: JML - no vowels, disembowel your Colin Powell, throw in the towel on December 19, 2006, 10:36:32 PM ---Being the messiah doesn't equate to being the "son of God".
--- End quote ---
Again, that wasn't my main point..
Edit: C'mon ya'll, don't go now! Engage, I want to know what you guys mean. Obviously the Adam is God's son thing doesn't hold up and the only thing you got going for you is simply saying that the birth was a miracle.. Still doesn't explain where he came from, and why he wouldn't be God's direct Son? It's illogical to believe that he has no father rather than to believe that God was his actual father since the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary.. What good reason do Muslims have to deny Yeshua? And how can Muslims not believe that Man is born into sin? What kind of custom made religion is this? How can you believe the creation story of Adam and Eve(or am I assuming again?), and not believe in the curse of Adam? It's like Islam tries to customize everything around their belief that Jesus was not Son Of God, how can you only believe part of God's word and throw the other parts out?
IRAN iz Gangsta!:
Yea your initial assumptions are from christian teachings....There is no such thing as we're sinned forever cuz of adam&eve and how can christ be born without a father. Its ridiculous to believe such a thing, thats why christianity is not a logical religion to muslims but who am I to be judging...
Mohammad's miracle was by far more impressive....He was an ILLETERATE shepherd and he got his message from God during the nights when he used to take the sheep out. Then he was able to recite it off the top of his head and that how Koran was writtern. He narrated it and people wrote it. Now you can say he was just bullshitting but to this day, it was one of the best and well written books of the arabic language. So how could an illeterate person of 40 years old be able to do that??
Now think abou that ^^^ for a second. ;)
sonofisis:
--- Quote from: IRAN iz Gangsta! on December 19, 2006, 11:17:42 PM ---Yea your initial assumptions are from christian teachings....There is no such thing as we're sinned forever cuz of adam&eve and how can christ be born without a father. Its ridiculous to believe such a thing, thats why christianity is not a logical religion
--- End quote ---
This is where you lose my friend, because this is not an assumption and I know for a fact that Muslims believe this and not Christians. Muslims believe that Christ was born with out a father, Christians believe God was the father.. And The Old Testament is flawless, this is where the Adam and Eve story comes from. Most Muslims have a problem with the New Testament, I've watched many debates where they've stated this. And for all I know Mohammed was a false prophet, how we know he just didn't copy shit from the Bible and made all that other shit up?
And the first guys that responded to me ran away and I'm tired of waiting on a good response so I'll be back in the morning to debate this. Please don't feel threatened, I am simply trying to understand where Islam is coming from... Please leave your opinion and I will respond in the morning, if you have a good answer I will be forced to accept it, but I doubt that will happen, but maybe someone will prove me wrong. I'll be back.
J @ M @ L:
Ok, let's ignore what Tech said about man not being born of sin, since your main question is basically why Muslims don't accept Jesus as the son of God.
The phrase "Son of God" was used throughout the Bible to refer others besides Jesus... (ex: King David, the prophet Ezekial, Daniel, the Jewish people as whole being called the "children of God", etc)... it's evident that Jesus isn't the only being referred to as the son of God, and is therefore not to be taken in the literal sense that you're trying to imply... unless David, who had biological parents, is also literally the son of God, implying he has 2 daddies. In addition, there are several verses in the Bible which quote Jesus referring to God as "your father" or "our father" when he's talking to the people. There's no difference between saying "my father" or "our father", so there's no way to derive that Jesus is in fact implying he's literally the Son of God.
Exod 4:22-23 "Let my son go that he may serve me. Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."
Psalm 2:7 "Jehovah had said onto me, thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." (me = David)
If you have some proof that Jesus is the Son of God in a different sense than the one being ascribed to all the other examples, then I'd like to see some proof of why. Does Jesus say "I was born to a virgin, therefore God is my daddy"?
I'm assuming you don't actually believe that God came to earth in the human form, had sex with Mary, impregnated her, and bounced.
Again, you don't make sense when you say that the Muslim belief in Jesus being born to a virgin but not being the literal son of God is illogical, just because it's not the same as the Christian belief. Your argument holds no ground. You saying "How can Muslims believe..." isn't a very convincing argument. I can just as easily say "How can Christians believe....", but it wouldn't mean shit. To me it seems that rather than trying to ask why Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, you're actually trying to debate the idea of the trinity itself. If that's the case, let me know because right now you're not saying shit.
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