Lifestyle > Train of Thought
A movie by Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali - "Submission"
*Z* - The Queen of Dubcc:
heres an interview with ayaan hirsi ali
I TO DA GEEZY:
--- Quote from: Yay AREA 510 CUTTHOAT on January 07, 2007, 04:39:01 PM ---damn, didnt think i'd ever agree with you on anything i to da geezy. but very well said, you gotta defend your rightous beliefs. i guess thats why muslims and jews are at war till this day, we both feel we're right in the stance we adopted.
--- End quote ---
See man I don't really think there is a reason why rational people shouldn't get along. When you meet a person whose judgement seems to you clouded by irrationality you shouldn't hate that person nor should u antagonize that person.Even when that person seems to you downright dumb. These are people who need help. I don't think I got the help I needed when I was driven by dogmatic thought.
The Jews and the Muslims in support of this conflict r driven either by religious beliefs and/or by blind patriotism. If people started treating each other like people and not like categories we could resolve things. I really love the marxist critique of Nationalism (Though I am not a full-fledged Marxist) that points out how nationalism is an elite\leadership manufactured form of indoctrination that aims at subjugation of the general population for its purposes. FUCK determining political goals based on primordial-ethnic-national belonging....Let's all choose for ourselves, Let's use our own brains!!! Give yourselves some credit yall!
*Z* - The Queen of Dubcc:
i dont think this movie is propaganda. it doesnt say all muslim women are victims of sexual abuse by their husbands or uncles or whatever, it doesnt say muslims are initially bad people. the girl that is standing there is a muslim woman herself, and ayaan hirsi ali is a muslim too, btw.
it is no secret that in catholicism for example there are often cases of sexual abuse by priests, there were many cruel things in the history done in the name of christianity.
it doesnt mean islam is something bad. in my oppinion it just shows that islam isnt flawless (just as any other religion). there are also movies which are critical about fundamentalistic christianity and i dont think it is necessarely bad, though im a baptized orthodox christian.
why did van gogh have to be killed in such a way? why should a muslim be so aggravated by that movie if he doesnt live his beliefs in a morally correct way and is not guilty of any crimes? i think that every halfway intellignet and normal person understands that this movie wasnt meant to say: "islam is bad, die, muslim people!" it is only there to show that it is not flawless like bryan or other muslims on this board sometimes claim. we all are people and in every religion and nationality and other groups you can find good people and less good people. any other statements are plain generalizations
Elevz:
Let me get one thing straight first. I am not a muslim, nor a christian. I'm not really an atheist either; I guess taoism comes closest. But that doesn't mean I can't defend the muslim point of view here, when I feel like they have the right to feel attacked here. The murder on Theo van Gogh is as wrong as it gets, but the muslims had a right to feel insulted here.
What you see in the movie isn't really Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali trying to depict the flaws of the Qu'Ran. They were not just shining a light on a thoughtful matter, although indeed it is a terrible thing to do for that uncle to hide behind his muslim principles to justify his lust and abuse. The exact problem with the movie is that it seemingly tries to give the viewer an impression as if that's what the islam stands for. That's where I say this movie becomes a disgrace. The issues seem to be brought up not to activate a thought process, but to do the exact opposite: to do the thinking for you, in a biased and unfair way. Propaganda, because the script is too limited and biased to give a truthful impression.
I TO DA GEEZY:
--- Quote from: Elevz Is Fuckin' Serious About This! on January 08, 2007, 07:36:28 AM ---The exact problem with the movie is that it seemingly tries to give the viewer an impression as if that's what the islam stands for.
--- End quote ---
The viewer is being presented with a tragedy many women in traditional Muslim society r forced to face. If in your opinion there's something more important than this you have to get your moral priorities straight.
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