A movie by Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali - "Submission"

[I TO DA GEEZY]

So you're saying the European union, in a way, poses a threat to the formal democracy upheld in the states included in it?
The worst case scenario would then be complete merging right? But had this transpired wouldn't it be possible to enforce the same formal democracy all throughout the newly established sovereignty?
I still don't see how this isn't valid, at least on the theoretical level.

[virtuoso]

Yes it has effectively transformed itself into a superstate, to illustrate how much power it now holds 70% of the laws which govern this country are now decided upon within the union and are then imposed on this country. Most of the political debates within parliament are effectively a show because they do not have the power to repeal the laws. Democracy can not be run in the same way as it can at a national level because no one nation is able to effect change once it becomes a member of the union. The 3 main political parties in this country play a game of semantical football but none of them want to leave the union. This set the stage for the creation of UKIP to enter into brussels, basically their soul intention is to leave the union. As change can not be effected nationally it means that in effect on a lot of issues the politicians here are simply token spokespeople. Not only has this country being sold up the river but mass amounts of the tax payers wealth has also been surrendered to the union, it is something in the region of 50 billion which is being paid to the union every year. Every year there is calls for more "harmonisation" of laws and we have even had "debates" in this country asking are we european or are british? On a certain level there is a deep disquiet here but for most people in this country they are completely oblivious to what is happening. This socialistic system of control is just expanding and expanding by a combination of power mad individuals and of course well meaning people.

The people that run the european union were elected by their fellow peers, that is those in the most prominent positions of power. There are MEPS (ministry european politicians but their main concern is acting in the interests of "Europe". What is even more disturbing about the european union though, is as I mentioned previously, the trilateral commission created this european governership. When people talk about a world government they don't understand it's basic structure. Simply because of geopolitical reasons, culture language and locational barriers, the world is carved into 3 main entities; The European Union, The North American Union and the Asian Union. This is why i am completely dumbfounded when someone declares that they are a communist or a world socialist. In a utopian society perhaps a "one world" state might not pose incredible dangers to citizens but society in general has verged towards almost the opposite extreme of utopia.

[I TO DA GEEZY]

So wouldn't you say the real problem is the execution, the bringing about, of this merging, particularly how it's done in terms of the European Union? I doubt it there is a conceptual problem with the mere idea of International merging. It's just that the example we have here is rotten.

[virtuoso]

I don't have a problem with co-operation between states and trading ties however when the union becomes indistinguishable form the state then it becomes a big big problem. It was the underhand way in which it was created to the british public were basically deceived into believing the notion that the european union would amount to nothing more than a "free trading block" however it's been a game of chess, the pieces have been moved very very slowly. It is always the same though any time in which a new entity is being created, the drawbridge is lowered the moat is drained and the peoples inside are the ones who are exposed to the dangers. Did you know that as opposed to the american and english constitution which guarantees the rights of the individual because they are the inaliable rights of the individual the european charter of human rights states that human rights are a privilege which can be revoked. It's just beyond bewildering how all of this has been allowed to transpire.

[I TO DA GEEZY]

Well screw the European union for tarnishing the idea of internationalism. Nevertheless, I view exclusive paradigms, such as Nationalism, as a problem on the perceptional level as well as on the philosophical level. The mere essence of it reeks of schisms between groups of people on dogmatic grounds.

[J @ M @ L]

Nationalism = Bullshit

[I TO DA GEEZY]

Preach on brother ^

[virtuoso]

As is the idea of a loving world power taking care of you "cough" U.N, yeah what a great solution that body is  Of course the point of view on this usually ranges from the naive oh U.N is a great thing to oh the U.N just need some reforms. I find it perpelxing that many still have not grasped that these reforms are designed in such a way that they make things worse, they centralise power ever more.

[I TO DA GEEZY]

Centralization of power is bad for democracy it's a known fact. You got that right man. However, there are many different ways to centralize power and the so called "pulling out the National Card" is one of these ways. Seriously man, how many times have we heared the phrase "It is within our national interest" coming out of traps of state leaders before ordering atrocities to take place. How was that pro-democracy?- We all know those r attempts to reach consensus with regard to cold hearted murder...

[virtuoso]

Politicians will always do whatever what it takes to brainwash the people listening into being able to justify their actions. I agree that when people hear cathphrases like "national interest" there becomes a degree of acceptance towards whatever the intention or aim. Mainly because people evoke national interest with being of benefit to all citizens within that nation, your example though is an example of spin and heavy spin is used in many instances. However using the illusion of nationalism as the justification, is just one vehicle used to steer a message.

[I TO DA GEEZY]

Exactly this synonymity of the word "National" and "Being of benefit to ALL citizens within a nation" frightens me the most. The idea of some sort of unanimity of all those who are part of a Nation is what's really chilling. Especially in terms of democracy that is, by definition, supposed to take into acount the diversity of opinions and takes on any given issue.

[REGIME MOB 510]

bottom line, this bitch ayaan hirsi ali needs to get her wig split.

[*Z* - The Queen of Dubcc]

bottom line, this bitch ayaan hirsi ali needs to get her wig split.

whys that?

[virtuoso]

If it was a level playing field whereby it wasn't deemed acceptable to be going after one group of people more than another I would not have a problem with it. I do not have a problem with any of the film makers, this is regardless as to whether I agree with their methods or not. I do not know where their underlying motivation lay when they were making this film i.e. whether it was just to make a thought provoking film which happened to be based on a muslim women or where they deliberately sought to go after the muslim faith.  The reason I do not have a problem with them is people should be free to express themselves whether that is through literature film or however else they choose to convey a message an idea, an interpretation or anything in between. This film might be offensive to some it might be inaccurate it might be poorly produced and presented but it is not trying to incite hatred if you actually look at the content. My problem lies in a general sense, it is exasperating to see the hypocritical nature of various groups when it does come to films like this. That being said to say that this woman or anyone else connected with the making of this film should be killed is ridiculous. Also it's falling right into a mouse trap, you are being offered the bait and you are falling for it. By expressing such an aggressive extreme opinion it only further alienates most of society from muslims because they want to distance themselves from that opinion.

Make no mistake about it the human pieces of filth which comprise the ADL and other groups absolutely love it when muslims fly off at the deep end. Even if that really is your genuine feelings towards this woman you have got to learn to shutup because there is a time and a place. It would be a lot wise to choose your battles more carefully, that is my opinion anyway.

[Noname]

bottom line, this bitch ayaan hirsi ali needs to get her wig split.

She has gone to America now. So take your chance and kill a bitch.