GOAT thoughts

[Maestro Minded]

how can you say that some old dude like pele (football) or kareem (basketball) was the goat when the practice and the skills they had then is nothing compared to now. i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did.  people always progress and in some sports its harder to deny it. for ex. nobody can claim that carl lewis is the best sprinter ever since many other guys have passed his WR.

i was thinking of this because of the goat polls flooding dubcc.

i always try to see things as objective as possible and the fact is that with today’s strict trainings, diet and tactics, there's no way a player from the 70-80's would fit in any team in premier league, nba or anything else.

if you want to make a objective goat-team it would probably consist of "later" players

juust some thoughts


same thing when some people tries to convince me that some old humphrey bogart film is the best they've ever seen... they knew nothing about making films back then... its all nostalgia

[Don Jacob]

that's a stupid


magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league
ect.

you're not GREAT because of numbers you put up or how much technology is around you to aid you in competition, you're great because of the raw talent and leadership skills you pocess. kareem would still be a hall of famer if he were to play in today'sleague......bill lambier maybe not.....get my drift? if you know your history of the sport than you should know pretty much what historic figures should be in these discussions.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.

["THE" MoSav]

I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.

real spit. It always kills me when people say Larry Bird couldnt compete today. lol.

[Maestro Minded]

I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league

with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand


i wont spend too much time trying to convince people

["THE" MoSav]

I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league

with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand


i wont spend too much time trying to convince people

game not match.
Era's are different. Greatness defines doing something common in an uncommon way, guys like Oscar, cousy, west, etc did that. You cant compare the era's its just not realistic.

[Maestro Minded]

I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.

real spit. It always kills me when people say Larry Bird couldnt compete today. lol.

he wouldnt.. not with the skills and training he had then.. but if he had the same conditions todays players have maybe he would rape them... i have no opinion in that matter. you you need to distinguish between actual skill and possibility to develop further under diferent circumstances

[Maestro Minded]

I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league

with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand


i wont spend too much time trying to convince people

game not match.
Era's are different. Greatness defines doing something common in an uncommon way, guys like Oscar, cousy, west, etc did that. You cant compare the era's its just not realistic.

i say match, im not american

and yor're right. you can compare eras, because techniques develop and skills develops. it would be a shame if the case wasnt such.
djinghis khan had a great army... for his era..  but the fact is that todays destructed iraq would rip him a new asshole. so you cant say that no army have been stronger than khans army, because thats obviously not the case. what you can say though is that no army have made such an impact toward his opposition as khan did.

but thats not what you guys are saying... you guys are claiming that the top oldschoolers were actually playing better than the top players of today.. it's just laughable honestly

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league

with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand


i wont spend too much time trying to convince people

LMAO...Okay, Swedish referree. I dunno about your Sweden leagues, but defense has always been a strong element of basketball in America. In fact, the defense was even stronger back in the days, with the less harsh rules... back then, almost every team had an enforcer who would mainly focus on pushing other players around. Today, teams can get away with playing ZERO defense...You think if a guy like Steve Nash is MVP in todays league, a legend amongst legend like Jerry West would be anything short of amazing? LOOK AT HIS CAREER AVERAGES! AND THAT WAS WITHOUT THE 3 POINT LINE...The only reason the US aint killin everyone in international play is because we keep on sending out consolation teams!...PeACe

[Maestro Minded]

LMAO...Okay, Swedish referree. I dunno about your Sweden leagues, but defense has always been a strong element of basketball in America. In fact, the defense was even stronger back in the days, with the less harsh rules... back then, almost every team had an enforcer who would mainly focus on pushing other players around. Today, teams can get away with playing ZERO defense...You think if a guy like Steve Nash is MVP in todays league, a legend amongst legend like Jerry West would be anything short of amazing? LOOK AT HIS CAREER AVERAGES! AND THAT WAS WITHOUT THE 3 POINT LINE...The only reason the US aint killin everyone in international play is because we keep on sending out consolation teams!...PeACe

you asked me what i knew about basketball and i responded.. whats funny?

i see no "supreme defense" when wathcing old black and white nba tapes.. but maybe it's just me...

and don't make excuses... usa are loosing because other countries are catching up
last time i checked carmello, dwayne and lebron were top scorers in nba

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

LMAO...Okay, Swedish referree. I dunno about your Sweden leagues, but defense has always been a strong element of basketball in America. In fact, the defense was even stronger back in the days, with the less harsh rules... back then, almost every team had an enforcer who would mainly focus on pushing other players around. Today, teams can get away with playing ZERO defense...You think if a guy like Steve Nash is MVP in todays league, a legend amongst legend like Jerry West would be anything short of amazing? LOOK AT HIS CAREER AVERAGES! AND THAT WAS WITHOUT THE 3 POINT LINE...The only reason the US aint killin everyone in international play is because we keep on sending out consolation teams!...PeACe

you asked me what i knew about basketball and i responded.. whats funny?

i see no "supreme defense" when wathcing old black and white nba tapes.. but maybe it's just me...

and don't make excuses... usa are loosing because other countries are catching up
last time i checked carmello, dwayne and lebron were top scorers in nba

LeBron, Carmelo, and Wade are all second rate players, not on the level of proven vets like Kobe, Duncan, Kidd etc....Players of the 70s/80s like Dr. J, Dominique Wilkins, Daryl Dawkins and so forth were just as athletic and physically developed AND would put the Wade's and LeBron's of today to shame...PeACe

[J @ M @ L]

i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did.

Bullshit.

[Maestro Minded]

i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did.

Bullshit.

ok.. maybe not 100... but atleast 20

[J @ M @ L]

i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did.

Bullshit.

ok.. maybe not 100... but atleast 20

Bullshit. Name 20 active players playing better than Maradona ever did.

[Maestro Minded]

im typing attacking midfielders and strikers since thats the position maradona played

henry
drogba
shevchenko (atleast when he played in italy)
robben (the only one who can match cristiano ronaldo in speed, is to injury prone though)
gerrard
rooney
cristiano ronaldo
scholes

ronaldinho
eto'o
nistelrooy
torres
villa

ibrahimovic
totti
stankovic
adriano (when on form)
kaka

klose
makaay

juninho
pauleta
-------------------------------

don't even try to claim that im wrong
put your respect for the "legends" aside for the moment

cristiano ronaldo is WAAY quicker with the ball, can shoot perfect with both feet, controlls the ball 10x better than maradona. you probably wanna mention the "dribble" in mexico '86 where maradona supposedly dribbled through the whole midfield and back to score, but if you look carefully, you will see that he dribbled through two players only. well cristiano ronaldo did the same thing last week.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/omtc27

and thats not the first time he've done it

you wanna see a real dribble, check zlatan



i would show stuff of each player i mentioned, but it would take too muc of my time