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Quote from: Now_I_Know on May 08, 2007, 01:15:59 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:58:28 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:52:29 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:08:07 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:05:38 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.I disagree, I will say he is the best, but the MVP SHOULD also have to do with team performance, and the Lakers didn't have those kind of seasons.Kobe had to score 50+ points in 4 straight games just for the Lakers to barely beat teams like Memphis/Portland. Take him off the team and the Lakers would probably lose damn near every game. Him just being on the court is what gives them a chance. If thats not the MVP please tell me what is...A player that can lead his team past the 1st round of the playoffs. it's an INDIVIDUAL award...PeACeyeah for an individual who can lead his team to victory.you mean to tell me that the leader of the 7th seeded team in the west, that barely loafed into the playoffs, and went on a downward spiral at the end of the season should win it?crazy!?
Quote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:58:28 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:52:29 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:08:07 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:05:38 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.I disagree, I will say he is the best, but the MVP SHOULD also have to do with team performance, and the Lakers didn't have those kind of seasons.Kobe had to score 50+ points in 4 straight games just for the Lakers to barely beat teams like Memphis/Portland. Take him off the team and the Lakers would probably lose damn near every game. Him just being on the court is what gives them a chance. If thats not the MVP please tell me what is...A player that can lead his team past the 1st round of the playoffs. it's an INDIVIDUAL award...PeACe
Quote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:52:29 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:08:07 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:05:38 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.I disagree, I will say he is the best, but the MVP SHOULD also have to do with team performance, and the Lakers didn't have those kind of seasons.Kobe had to score 50+ points in 4 straight games just for the Lakers to barely beat teams like Memphis/Portland. Take him off the team and the Lakers would probably lose damn near every game. Him just being on the court is what gives them a chance. If thats not the MVP please tell me what is...A player that can lead his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.
Quote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:08:07 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:05:38 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.I disagree, I will say he is the best, but the MVP SHOULD also have to do with team performance, and the Lakers didn't have those kind of seasons.Kobe had to score 50+ points in 4 straight games just for the Lakers to barely beat teams like Memphis/Portland. Take him off the team and the Lakers would probably lose damn near every game. Him just being on the court is what gives them a chance. If thats not the MVP please tell me what is...
Quote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:05:38 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.I disagree, I will say he is the best, but the MVP SHOULD also have to do with team performance, and the Lakers didn't have those kind of seasons.
Quote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.
Just because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.
-he's done nothing to make his teammates better
-when he went on his little scoring spree the went on losing streaks
-we almost were in a position to get booted out of the playoffs
-he's disappeared in the 4th quarter
-doesn't give his tea mates confidence that they can win
Quote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:58:28 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:52:29 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:08:07 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:05:38 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.I disagree, I will say he is the best, but the MVP SHOULD also have to do with team performance, and the Lakers didn't have those kind of seasons.Kobe had to score 50+ points in 4 straight games just for the Lakers to barely beat teams like Memphis/Portland. Take him off the team and the Lakers would probably lose damn near every game. Him just being on the court is what gives them a chance. If thats not the MVP please tell me what is...A player that can lead his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.LOL. Is that why Dirk is getting it this year? Is that why Nash got it last year when he was 1 rebound away from being bounced? Please make valid points, a regular season award has nothing to do with how a team does in the playoffs. And AGAIN, it's an INDIVIDUAL award...PeACe
Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-he's done nothing to make his teammates betterHe leads the team in assists. And if you watch the Lakers you know his teammates need to be spoon fed (and even when they are Luke/Lamar/Kwame/Evans still have tendencies to miss layups)Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-when he went on his little scoring spree the went on losing streaksDon't get what you're saying hereQuote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-we almost were in a position to get booted out of the playoffsYeah because 3 of our starters and 2 of our main bench guys were injured at the same time. Kobe was stuck with Andrew Bynum, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf, Smush Parker, and Shammond Williams to help him get into the playoffs.Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-he's disappeared in the 4th quarterOf what, one game? When you have to score on damn near every possession night in & night out just for your team to get some points on the board, I'm guessing you'd be pretty worn out by the 4th quarter too.Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-doesn't give his tea mates confidence that they can winI can think of a few times this season that Kobe's given his teammates the ball in big possessions. What about that pass to Brian Cook to send us to O/T against Washington? Or him with that last second pass to Smush Parker to force O/T against the Kings? What more do you want him to do, write them all motivational letters?
Because Malone and Barkley had arguably better seasons when they won the MVP
...Nash hasn't. It's one thing if Kobe has the supporting cast and is EXPECTED to do some damage in the playoffs...It's another thing when his teammates are comprised of D-League level talent and he leads them to the playoffs. THAT is a leader. Nash is a point guard, he's meant to lead that offense, it doesn't make him an MVP.
Dirk is not a great leader, the Lakers would be a lottery team with Dirk instead of Kobe...Those 50 point games are what saved the battered Lakers, Jake, you should know that. Without Kobe, there's no chance we'd be anywhere near the playoffs. Kobe is by far the best player in the league and means the most to his team...Try explaining how that's not an MVP without using the "his team is no good" argument, because that's a cop out. MVP is an INDIVIDUAL award, and no one does it better individually than Kobe.
Didn't you say you wanted Carmelo for Kobe? Come on, Jake...I know you love Shaq, but it's time to steer your love in the right direction, homie...PeACe
Quote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 01:28:10 PMQuote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-he's done nothing to make his teammates betterHe leads the team in assists. And if you watch the Lakers you know his teammates need to be spoon fed (and even when they are Luke/Lamar/Kwame/Evans still have tendencies to miss layups)Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-when he went on his little scoring spree the went on losing streaksDon't get what you're saying hereQuote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-we almost were in a position to get booted out of the playoffsYeah because 3 of our starters and 2 of our main bench guys were injured at the same time. Kobe was stuck with Andrew Bynum, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf, Smush Parker, and Shammond Williams to help him get into the playoffs.Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-he's disappeared in the 4th quarterOf what, one game? When you have to score on damn near every possession night in & night out just for your team to get some points on the board, I'm guessing you'd be pretty worn out by the 4th quarter too.Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 01:20:26 PM-doesn't give his tea mates confidence that they can winI can think of a few times this season that Kobe's given his teammates the ball in big possessions. What about that pass to Brian Cook to send us to O/T against Washington? Or him with that last second pass to Smush Parker to force O/T against the Kings? What more do you want him to do, write them all motivational letters?1. he leads in assists because the lakers lack a true point guard AND kobe's the one with the ball. i refuse to believe (especially after the begining of the season and the 3 wins in last years playoffs) that the lakers need to be spoon fed. if kobe was a good leader he'd be able to give them the confidence that they obviously lack. 2. when kobe started scoring all these rediculous points after the all star break.....what was the lakers' record, after the all star break i'm talking about??3. again lack of faith in his players, a leader would be able to facilitate with that and break through in the playoffs, i mean shit we lost to some BAAAD teams this year. also what happened to everyone saying the lakers have awesome players?? now they're bad?? which is it!??4. if kobe was able to instill confidence in his players like he did in last years playoffs (which he also dissappeared) he wouldn't HAVE to be worn down by the 4th quarter.5. those are a FEW examples against some PRETTY mediocre teams LOl. wow we shouldn't have even been in those possitions against them if we had the "MVP" on our team. again those are only a FEW examples, they did work yeah, but it's not consistant enough ....that should be OBVIOUS
Quote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 07, 2007, 01:06:13 PMSteve Nash.You really think this? LMAO. Shows how stupid you really are...Pretty much alll the players who've played against Kobe have said he was by far the best. It's not even a question who would win the MVP if the players voted."Kobe's the best player on the planet"-Mike D'Antoni[/quote)Kobe is definitely the best athlete and the most talented player in the NBA, but he is NOT the most valuable player. As for regular season, its gotta be Nash, Nowitzki, then Kobe. Kobe will get one as soon in the next couple of years though, i am sure of it. He's too good not to, he just has to mature a little.
Steve Nash.
Quote from: Antonio on May 08, 2007, 08:16:16 AMQuote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 02:28:29 AMif the players were to vote for the MVP they'd vote for Dirk or nash. or the majority of them would , because they know what the MVP trophy really is. it's not the "Player of the Year" trophy , it's the "leader of the Year" trophy.Wow! So Dirk is the "leader of the Year"? Mmmm..Or you wanna sell me he was been the leader of the year from the 1st to the 82nd game of the season and he became a bitch from the 83rd to the 88th? See, that's why those type of trophies are really stupid and most of the times you make a fool of yourself by giving it to a guy who still has to win the games that really matters. I think they should rename it to "Best Player in the League" trophy and stick with it. Fuck the record, fuck all this bullshit. Who's the best one? Kobe? Ok, Kobe gets it. Then they should give the MVP trophy to the leader of the team who wins the NBA. So you have two good thophies and you celebrate both the best player and the most decisive to win the title.What's the point having an MVP of the regular season who's 90% of the times different from the MVP of the PlayOff? It's just a couple of extra games, not a whole different season. Just give it to the leader of the championship team. And give a Best Player type of trophy after the regular season to the best player.1. yes dirk is the leader of the year ....or nash. whoever out of those two should win it for the regular season.. because the MVP is for the regular season....the post season is a seperate season all together.
Quote from: Don Jacob on May 08, 2007, 02:28:29 AMif the players were to vote for the MVP they'd vote for Dirk or nash. or the majority of them would , because they know what the MVP trophy really is. it's not the "Player of the Year" trophy , it's the "leader of the Year" trophy.Wow! So Dirk is the "leader of the Year"? Mmmm..Or you wanna sell me he was been the leader of the year from the 1st to the 82nd game of the season and he became a bitch from the 83rd to the 88th? See, that's why those type of trophies are really stupid and most of the times you make a fool of yourself by giving it to a guy who still has to win the games that really matters. I think they should rename it to "Best Player in the League" trophy and stick with it. Fuck the record, fuck all this bullshit. Who's the best one? Kobe? Ok, Kobe gets it. Then they should give the MVP trophy to the leader of the team who wins the NBA. So you have two good thophies and you celebrate both the best player and the most decisive to win the title.What's the point having an MVP of the regular season who's 90% of the times different from the MVP of the PlayOff? It's just a couple of extra games, not a whole different season. Just give it to the leader of the championship team. And give a Best Player type of trophy after the regular season to the best player.
if the players were to vote for the MVP they'd vote for Dirk or nash. or the majority of them would , because they know what the MVP trophy really is. it's not the "Player of the Year" trophy , it's the "leader of the Year" trophy.
4. on your last point.... why give an all star mvp then?
Quote from: Now_I_Know on May 08, 2007, 01:15:59 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:58:28 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:52:29 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:08:07 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on May 08, 2007, 12:05:38 PMQuote from: The_Dream_Shatterer on May 08, 2007, 12:03:47 PMJust because kobe is the "best" player in the L, that doesn't mean he had the best season. Nash had a better year, so did Duncan.They had better seasons as far as team record goes. But NOBODY had a better season than Kobe this or last season.I disagree, I will say he is the best, but the MVP SHOULD also have to do with team performance, and the Lakers didn't have those kind of seasons.Kobe had to score 50+ points in 4 straight games just for the Lakers to barely beat teams like Memphis/Portland. Take him off the team and the Lakers would probably lose damn near every game. Him just being on the court is what gives them a chance. If thats not the MVP please tell me what is...A player that can lead his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.LOL. Is that why Dirk is getting it this year? Is that why Nash got it last year when he was 1 rebound away from being bounced? Please make valid points, a regular season award has nothing to do with how a team does in the playoffs. And AGAIN, it's an INDIVIDUAL award...PeACeDirk is getting it for a fact? Damn, we so priveledged to have an NBA insider on our very board. Please make valid points.
QuoteBecause Malone and Barkley had arguably better seasons when they won the MVPLOL yah they had better seasons because they LEAD better, not because their numbers were better, jodan had better numbers those yearsQuote...Nash hasn't. It's one thing if Kobe has the supporting cast and is EXPECTED to do some damage in the playoffs...It's another thing when his teammates are comprised of D-League level talent and he leads them to the playoffs. THAT is a leader. Nash is a point guard, he's meant to lead that offense, it doesn't make him an MVP.you must not be a magic johnson fan then , huh. fact of the matter is this , the suns crumble without nash, but soar to HIGH heights with him. the lakers live and die with or without kobe.....that right there says it all QuoteDirk is not a great leader, the Lakers would be a lottery team with Dirk instead of Kobe...Those 50 point games are what saved the battered Lakers, Jake, you should know that. Without Kobe, there's no chance we'd be anywhere near the playoffs. Kobe is by far the best player in the league and means the most to his team...Try explaining how that's not an MVP without using the "his team is no good" argument, because that's a cop out. MVP is an INDIVIDUAL award, and no one does it better individually than Kobe.how do we know this? dirk has a team built around him and his style, kobe has a team built around him and his style, if dirk was in LA he wouldn't have the same players around him.....and if he did it's impossible to say whether or not he'd succeed or fail since it hasn't happened and proabbly won't. all i know is the lakers have had more success when kobe had faith in his players. the whole point is kobe shouldn't have to score 50 points for the lakers to win. they should be mentally able as a team not to rely on that, and the blame goes back to kobe since he's the leader. dirk flaked in the first round that is true, but who did he face ,lol , the coach who MADE him a star. bad contingency, not bad leadershipQuoteDidn't you say you wanted Carmelo for Kobe? Come on, Jake...I know you love Shaq, but it's time to steer your love in the right direction, homie...PeACeright now that looks better , aside from his suspention, he's been proving since his rookie season he's capable of taking a low class team to a higher level. the lakers have been bottom feeding since shaq left. i dont' know you do the math
Nash helps to MAKE his teammates better imo, so that does qualify him as an MVP candidate.
in fact, Lebron was better than Kobe last year too.