It's May 31, 2024, 08:49:04 PM
It's so easy to blame Kobe. But you should remember that the coach of that team was Phil Jackson, and he wasn't able enought with his "zen" to make peace between the two (let's say three). And it was Jerry Buss who chosed not to re-sign Phil Jackson and to trade Shaq, while Kobe was an unrestricted Free Agent. It was been Buss who chosed Kobe over Shaq. And probably Kobe over Phil Jackson. So he's the one to blame, if you wanna blame someone. But i think he did the right decision. It was fucked up they had to reach that point, but at that point they had to continue with Kobe imho.
If Jordan wouldn't have retired, they would've likely won 8 in a row which would've rivaled the Celtics.
I agree with Jrome about one thing: If Kobe could've deferred to that egomaniac Shaq a little bit longer, the Lakers would've won 3 more titles and Kobe would have at least 2 playoff MVP's, and maybe a couple regular season ones too.
Quote from: Now_I_Know on May 11, 2007, 07:32:46 PM^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. lol the bulls had bill wenington/luc longly.....WTF??
^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center.
Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
-alll of that is kobe's problem he's too concerned about HIS legacy.
Anyway yeah, Kobe should have accepted Shaq as the leader a little bit more, i do agree.
Quote from: Jrome Is Officially Voting for Ron Paul 2008! on May 12, 2007, 09:57:21 AMJordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...
Quote from: Now_I_Know on May 13, 2007, 04:39:24 PMQuote from: Jrome Is Officially Voting for Ron Paul 2008! on May 12, 2007, 09:57:21 AMJordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass.
Quote from: Jrome Is Officially Voting for Ron Paul 2008! on May 13, 2007, 05:45:38 PMQuote from: Now_I_Know on May 13, 2007, 04:39:24 PMQuote from: Jrome Is Officially Voting for Ron Paul 2008! on May 12, 2007, 09:57:21 AMJordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass. They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.