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Iraq never threatened America, Hitler never threatened America, Vietnam never th
JLscorpio:
If im not mistaken when the treay of Versailles was reached President Wilson was opposed to the harsh treatments Germany was given after World War 1 but he was overruled by the English and French. The English people wanted the extreme penalties and so did the French. While English Prime Minister David Lloyd George wanted to be more cautious about it he ended up bending his will to the people. The French felt much the same and so did there Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau. So if anyone is to blame it is the English and the French given the were in the greatest position to allow leniency, but they chose to be vindictive.
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: JLscorpio on June 05, 2007, 10:36:52 PM ---If im not mistaken when the treay of Versailles was reached President Wilson was opposed to the harsh treatments Germany was given after World War 1 but he was overruled by the English and French. The English people wanted the extreme penalties and so did the French. While English Prime Minister David Lloyd George wanted to be more cautious about it he ended up bending his will to the people. The French felt much the same and so did there Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau. So if anyone is to blame it is the English and the French given the were in the greatest position to allow leniency, but they chose to be vindictive.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the info...
btw, just another historical note regarding the treaties that followed World War 1 for those that are interested, out of all the world leaders that comprised the defeated Central Powers, the Turkish Sultan Veheddin, was the only leader that that wasn't removed from power, and Ottomans/Turks were also the only ones who didn't have harsh reperations enforced on them.
However, I believe this was part of a larger plan, and their were historical documents to back this up, but I will mention only a couple of items here. Basically, the British had ruled over places such as the Indian subcontinent for a long time. And they were afraid if they dethroned the Islamic world leader (Kalifah) then the Indian Muslims might rebel against the Empire. So they went about achieving the same objective but in a more covert way.
They occupied the Sultan's capital, thus making the Sultan weak. And although they didn't enforce reperations, the Allied forces did control the flow of money coming in and out of the capital. Meanwhile, they turned a blind eye towards the activities of Turkish nationalist Mustapha Kemal, who was arming militia's in another Turkish city named Anatolia. Therefore, this made Attaturk (Mustapha Kemal) look powerful and the Sultan look weak. Soon, they broke a deal with Attaturk to end their occupation of the capital, so thus he then gained the credit from the people as having been the one that gave the Turks back their NATION. Then, by the time 1922 had roled around, he was viewed by the Turkish people as a hero, and he usurped authoratarian power over the Empire, and then in 1924 he desolved the institution of the Ottoman Sultan/Kalifah alltogether.
^^So you see how the British were able to meet their goal? In fact, it's a similar situation today. If America were to leave Iraq, they would try to do it in a way, that would give the credit to a handpicked group of Iraqi's, that they favor to take over the region.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Shakur Abdul-Latif's Definition Of Hip-Hop..by -Infinite- on June 05, 2007, 09:30:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 05, 2007, 08:19:27 PM ---
Whether or not Germany and the Ottoman Empire would run the world. No bomb, no USA world power. Bomb, no Germany world power.
--- End quote ---
Well......... even if America had a bomb it doesn't mean they would have immediately went and bombed Germany and the Ottoman Empire into destruciton.. also, Germany and Ottoman Empire would have became rich after WW1 from oil wealth so they would have had more capital for research into making and biulding nukes.
--- End quote ---
They would have done what they had to for Isreal to become a nation. If the Ottoman's stood in the way then see ya later.
Don Seer:
ok some quick facts..
the germans couldnt cross the channel because the english navy has been one of the strongest naval forces to exist on this planet.. we live on an island.. to leave and conquer 4/5ths of the world we had to have an army on the sea
the germans did mercilessly bomb the crap out of england.. but at first we had sound mirrors (for some cool pics see http://www.castlekas.freeserve.co.uk/sound_mirrors.htm) and later invented radar to detect the incoming threaty. other ingenius tactics were used... like.. they used to dark out towns.. but in hills/fields nearby they'd lay out lights so it looked like the town from above.. they'd bomb these "lit" fields..
--- Quote from: Shakur Abdul-Latif's Definition Of Hip-Hop..by -Infinite- on June 06, 2007, 05:44:06 AM ---However, I believe this was part of a larger plan, and their were historical documents to back this up, but I will mention only a couple of items here. Basically, the British had ruled over places such as the Indian subcontinent for a long time. And they were afraid if they dethroned the Islamic world leader (Kalifah) then the Indian Muslims might rebel against the Empire. So they went about achieving the same objective but in a more covert way.
--- End quote ---
then what happened in india?
muslims formed "the muslim league"
muslims marched in the night and persecuted and attacked the peaceful Buddhist and Hindu indians alike.. they'd lock themselves in their homes to secure them from the muslim mobs.
and ultimately forced segregation and the formation of Pakistan.
those that didn't leave the places where their families had dwelled for 1000s of years and move to "safe" areas (which became india) were either killed or came to england
genocidal land grabbing dirty muslim bastards!
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: Seer - San on June 06, 2007, 06:10:33 AM ---
then what happened in india?
muslims formed "the muslim league"
muslims marched in the night and persecuted and attacked the peaceful Buddhist and Hindu indians alike.. they'd lock themselves in their homes to secure them from the muslim mobs.
and ultimately forced segregation and the formation of Pakistan.
those that didn't leave the places where their families had dwelled for 1000s of years and move to "safe" areas (which became india) were either killed or came to england
genocidal land grabbing dirty muslim bastards!
--- End quote ---
They don't even give that representation here in America, that's probably a British thing to remove your giult over a bloody occupation of India that lasted for centuries.
Even in the American representation in their textbooks, they actually make it sound as if what followed World War 1, was that Muslim, Hindu, Sihk, Buddist, all held hands and united together to oppose British rule, with the figurehead being Gandi, and so ultimately Britian had to leave, but not without planting the seeds for India's own destruction by seperating India and Pakistan in such a way that has led to the perpetual fighting over rights to Kashmir that weren't ever clearly defined.
^^That's the American perspective. My perspective is that the Hindu's had stabbed the Muslims in the back for centuries, the Hindu's were usually the ones conspiring with the Britian's to the disadvantage of the Indian people and for the advantage of the white man. Then, eventually, the Muslims fought to remove Britian's occupation... so Britian was forced out, however, Britian did not want India to become a threat down the road, so therefore they gave power to the Hindu's and claimed they left because of Ghandi's non-violent revolution, and they also left the Kashmir issue undefined to use as a wedge between Indian's and Pakistani's and play them against eachother.
As for the (West) Pakistan, (East Pakistan) Bangledash beef, I think Muslims have to accept most of the responsibility for that, although I think the Western Powers may have aided somewhat in that affair as it was ultimately towards their imperialistic advantage.
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