Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Are Lebanese the most useless people ever
J @ M @ L:
--- Quote from: The Overfiend on June 29, 2007, 01:53:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: J @ M @ L on June 28, 2007, 03:51:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: The Overfiend on June 28, 2007, 04:58:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: J @ M @ L on June 27, 2007, 10:35:37 PM ---If Hezbollah isn't there, Israel will just take that shit... the only thing in their way is Hezbollah... and that's why they're so persistent in their bullshit.
--- End quote ---
I think instead of Hezbollah guarding the boarder, Lebanon needs proper government forces there, because they won't be popping off rounds into Israel. I think it should be for the Lebanese government to decide it's own relations with Israel, not a terrorist organisation that's existence is justified by fighting with Israel. Often Hezbollah's actions are the excuse Israel needs, if Israel had a peaceful boarder with Lebanon, with Lebanese army troops manning the boarder instead of a terrorist militia like Hezbollah, it would be a war between nations if Israel invaded south Lebanon, instead of a war between a terrorist group and a nation. I just think dealing with Israel can't be done through violence, because then it will always be justified in whatever it does. The best way to deal with it is nation to nation and any disputes whether over access to water or whatever should be able to be pursued through diplomatic channels inside of just throwing it all in with the militias and their tactics.
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I have one thing to say to refute that bullshit: 1982... Hezbollah wasn't there, and Israel invaded...
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You fail to grasp my point everytime, so have it your way then, lets just keep applauding Hezbollah everytime it sends a few rockets into Israel, thats a fantastic way to deal with problems and promote peace.
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I got your point, but you don't have a clue about the politics behind this shit. It's not as simple as you play it out in your head.
I TO DA GEEZY:
If Israel's terror is greater and if it's been directed for years against Lebanon, before Hezbollah even existed, and was the reason for the creation of Hezbollah, how can you present Hezbollah as an obstacle to a genuine settlement when in fact it was the only substantial force to counter Israel's destruction of Lebanon.So far you've expressed your contention that peace can exist only on u.s-israel terms because they possess greater power. Admitting u.s and Israel to be terrorist states, as you did, is simply acknowledging a fact and does not automatically grant you "Dove" status.As we have seen, this fact did not impede your support for u.s-israeli policies regarding Lebanon since you purport the main problem to be Hezbollah. Great power is hard to counter, it involves a risk, and you can rationally argue that such a risk is too great to undertake, but it is frivolous to absolve the primary culprits from their overwhelming share of guilt and with even more reason it is ridiculous to blame those who chose to defend their country from imminent destruction for the prolongation of the conflict.
AndrE16686:
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on June 29, 2007, 03:23:33 AM ---If Israel's terror is greater and if it's been directed for years against Lebanon, before Hezbollah even existed, and was the reason for the creation of Hezbollah, how can you present Hezbollah as an obstacle to a genuine settlement when in fact it was the only substantial force to counter Israel's destruction of Lebanon.So far you've expressed your contention that peace can exist only on u.s-israel terms because they possess greater power. Admitting u.s and Israel to be terrorist states, as you did, is simply acknowledging a fact and does not automatically grant you "Dove" status.As we have seen, this fact did not impede your support for u.s-israeli policies regarding Lebanon since you purport the main problem to be Hezbollah. Great power is hard to counter, it involves a risk, and you can rationally argue that such a risk is too great to undertake, but it is frivolous to absolve the primary culprits from their overwhelming share of guilt and with even more reason it is ridiculous to blame those who chose to defend their country from imminent destruction for the prolongation of the conflict.
--- End quote ---
I recommend you go back and re-read my posts because you are assuming waaaayy too much from what little i posted, I never cited any side as being to blame or peace only possible on any side's terms, I think you all miss Real American too much, you seem to wish me to be something that I am not. Its amazing that all im trying to do is play the devil's advocate for Israel and suddenly everybody has soo much to assume from what I posted, maybe its because I failed to say 'fuck Israel' to add a bit of balance. Otherwise, since when did I purport 'the main problem to be Hezbollah'? Rather Im sick of people regarding Israel as the main problem, instead of being critical of both sides, Israelis and Palestinians both get their children to write messages on rockets being sent to each other. There is an increasing trend and global order evolving, where states are increasingly binded by their economic ties. This is a very real 'new' order, this is why the US will never go to war with China, the reason why China will never allow Nrth Korea to attack Japan or South Korea, globalisation theorists call it global governance. My argument is that the Lebanese government, because it
--- Quote from: The Overfiend on June 29, 2007, 01:53:31 AM ---was looking out for alot of factors about Lebanon such as the economic safety of the country and the infastructure, factors that would have been put in danger by Hezbollah escalating something with Israel
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it was taking a much more rational appraoch to the conflict with Israel, through refraining from skirmishes and setting the stage for peace by building it's economy and promoting an economic environment that would have promoted peace between Israel and Lebanon. Hezbollah may have been a necessity for Lebanon's southern security, but now I see greater benefit in having Lebanese government troops on the boarder with Israel. Thats my view on the issue, there are supporters of Hezbollah here in Australia who say it is a freedom fighter group and only exists to defend Lebanon against Israel, my main problem with the organisation is that, what if (and they did) the Lebanese government wants to refrain from escalating skirmishes with Israel and Hezbollah dosnt comply and instead conducts missions against Israel on it's own. Thats stupid. That disregards the Lebanese government's attempts at peace dosn't it?
I TO DA GEEZY:
Ok, I'm gonna be brief:
There are no "skirmishes" between Israel and Lebanon aside from those Israel initiates.
Disregard of this hitorical fact absolves the primary culprits(Namely U.S and Israel) from guilt and turns Hezbollah's role into the main obstacle.
It is convenient to disregard history when you wanna portray a disfavorable picture of an official enemy, especially when you don't want to seem biased (I'm pretty much an expert at this kind of argument if you go back and read my older posts).
AndrE16686:
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on June 29, 2007, 05:11:04 AM ---Ok, I'm gonna be brief:
There are no "skirmishes" between Israel and Lebanon aside from those Israel initiates.
Disregard of this hitorical fact absolves the primary culprits(Namely U.S and Israel) from guilt and turns Hezbollah's role into the main obstacle.
It is convenient to disregard history when you wanna portray a disfavorable picture of an official enemy, especially when you don't want to seem biased (I'm pretty much an expert at this kind of argument if you go back and read my older posts).
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History is used to justify all types of bullshit (the Holocaust=Israel, WWI=WWII, , etc). You can't let it dictate the future. If everytime, Hezbollah sends a rocket into an Israeli town, we cant say 'they are defending themselves' and 'they have historically been justified in defending themselves'.
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