To: Xander -- (concerning comments in: "Crooked I discusses his Top 10 MC's ev

[4108]

Illmatic might not be really that big of an influence in your books, but let me tell you that this opened up the door for a lot of rappers in the underground and shit.

i am not denying it has an influence. every album that has a lasting impression has an influence. and for online elitists and fans all around to remember an album from 10-15 years ago means an influence is undeniable. i am saying illmatic is severely overrated and is not of jesus-status as everyone online would have you believing. but tell ME, what has illmatic accomplished other than being a hidden gem of the 90's. i am waiting for a list that is equivalent to a stairway to heaven.

Jay took over the mainstream for several years with his first release(s), i recognize this, but the (artistic) success of Nas made New York rap big again, in a time where the west was dominating (the early 90's era, anyone??) so yeah i definately consider Nas opening doors for rappers and stuff, people always see the big (mainly based on sales) success of Jay-Z, but i would go as far to say that if Illmatic didn't drop, Jay probably wouldn't be where he's at today and certainly wouldn't have that big of a status right now.

once again, people online overrate illmatic's success and existence. the so-called [artistic comeback] for NY was more of a [movement] and not a "last-minute-creative-sprout-that changed-the-game" known as Illmatic. (-- ON THE CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF.) NY's regained creative surge owes thanks to: "Ready2Die", "36 Chambers", "The Infamous/Juvenile Hell", "Illmatic" and "The Sun Rises In The East". R2D has and always will have a wider influence than Illmatic. also, you are saying "first release(s)" like you [didnt know] his first debut album was heavily slept on, and that he never got anywhere in the mainstream until an in-house produced flipped an annie-sample. now, jigga definately pocketed influence from illmatic. hell an illmatic sample is present on "dead presidents II" but saying he wouldnt be as [big in status] right now without it due to (direct or indirect) influence of NAS's slept-on album? bullshit. how about: he wouldnt be as big as he is without Jaz-O, Christopher Wallace(Biggie Smalls) or Dame Dash? (you know, people who help make him into what he is now.) what if jaz-o's album with jay=z's first guest appearance never dropped? how about that.

I'm a fan of both, but i gotta say Illmatic >>> Jay-Z's whole catalogue. The lyrics, flow and simple yet superb beats on Illmatic are not to be fucked with.

yadda yadda yadda, i am digging that slimthug avatar but I will be damned if the dated beats on illmatic get to outshine and trample over the [other musically inclined albums] (like doggystyle/s+s) just because of the big name producers on-board. alas, people act as if, -just because dr.dre is behind the project it MUST be 10/10 quality always right? no. "On Top Of The World", "Safe/Sound", "Doggystyle", "Chronic", > Illmatic in terms of production and overall package. there is no need to put an 'imo' tag behind any of this shit because it should already be understood I am talking from my own opinion --if it isnt a factual statement.

Illmatic has had way more impact on the industry then Jay-Z ever had, imo from the top 5 he picked should be:

now, I bring you back to your original quote/snippet that flagged me down to controversey to begin with. I laugh at it, because you probably do not know what all Jay-Z has accomplished. believe me, compared to the lone 'Illmatic' it is mt.fuji. Illmatic's influence is like a little turtle compared to everything Jay-Z has done for hiphop. -- keep in mind I am not really a fan of either of these guys, none of them are exclusive to my top-ten but I will call bullshit as I see fit.

and just for reference? - my top ten
01 - Ice Cube
02 - Andre3000
03 - Common Sense
04 - Ras Kass
05 - Scarface
06 - Z-Ro
07 - Kurupt
08 - KRS-One
09 - Xzibit
10 - Devin The Dude

[4108]

and....just so this can stay in the westcoast forum: 

1) does illmatic get love out west and from western niggas?
2) does NAS get love out west.
3) nima/dpg2k7 are you guys still looking for reviewers? i sent a review in whenever you originally announced it 

[everlast1986]

since when were they looking  for reviewers? 

[4108]

it was awhile back, like around the time the entire board was anticipating TBCT's release.


I'll check my old sent mails and see when I first sent DPG2K7 my review email to get an estimate

[R-Tistic]

and....just so this can stay in the westcoast forum: 

1) does illmatic get love out west and from western niggas?
2) does NAS get love out west.
3) nima/dpg2k7 are you guys still looking for reviewers? i sent a review in whenever you originally announced it 

It gets love, mainly from Hip Hop heads, rappers, and just older cats in general. I'm 22, and I remember the singles on BET back then, mainly "The world is yours"....and I saw Nas at that point as a decent rapper, but he didn't stand out to me as all of my favorites at the time did, who were Snoop, Warren, Cube, Dre, etc. because I was in L.A., and we rarely heard Nas outside of BET. Nas didn't really get big in L.A. until "If I ruled the world", which ruled the damn radio in the summer of 96, right along with Bow Down, Ain't no n'gga, and the whole 2Pac movement.

Since 96, Nas has got a lot of love in L.A....but I'd say the balance of "power" between him and Jay has been like this.....
94-95 - We only knew of Nas, but didn't really jock him like that
96 - If I ruled the world was maaajor, and "Ain't no n'gga" was right up there in radio play.
97 - Nas was on radio because of The Firm, but no one was really on them that hard. Jay was out, but didn't get much play this year
98 - Jay became one of the major artists, especially when "Can I get a" dropped but wasn't far ahead of DMX, who people were thinkin was the next 2Pac at the time (No BS). Nas and DMX did Belly, which helped Nas a bit, but didn't do a whole lot for him at that level.
99 - Nas came strong, and everybody was on "I am" pretty damn hard, and they were still on Jay's album...but at this point, nobody in L.A. was really comparin them like that.
2000 - Jay started to get bigger and damn bigger, and Nas was slowly slidin, especially with Nastradamus. When Vol. 3 came out, it basically put Jay over the top, with Big Pimpin bein major.
2001 - All the way up to Blueprint, everybody was on Jay hard, and people had somewhat forgotten about Nas...and people who weren't really into rap in 99 didn't really look for Nas as much. Therefore, when word was out that they were beefin, many people were on Jay's side......until Nas dropped Ether and his album, which damn near made things even between him and Jay. Most people who were unbiased took Nas' side real quick, and felt Ether MURDERED Jay....with some of Jay's fans feeling ashamed, thinking he got murdered. Most true Hip Hop fans who listened to both felt Nas came through. However, Jay still earned the edge of the "commercial" LA crowd, especially with females and younger people.
2002 - Everybody was tryin to figure out who was better between the two...and constantly compared them. As I said before...the commercial crowd still rolled with Jay, and well as the younger crowd. Jay came with BP2, which got a bit of attention, but most people weren't that impressed.
2003-2005 - Jay maintained the edge overall, but Nas' nas stayed around. Black Album made major noise from what I saw, and Street's Disciple was highly slept on or even ignored.
2006 - I really don't know who's album sold more in L.A...but I'd assume it was Jay. However, most people who were listening to both with unbiased ears felt that Nas' album was better, and many of Jay's biggest fans were dying for Jay to drop a classic, and were dissapointed.

So overall.....I think Jay has been bigger, because of his large commercial presence.....but most people who are considered Hip Hop heads, especially older cats, have always preferred Nas.

[4108]

appreciatin' the feedback fam ^

[d-nice]

RTistic always speaking that real shit. The thing about Nas, and nothing against him, his style is never going to translate into huge sales to the point Jay has had. The problem Nas had earlier in his career is he would change his style and it almost seemed like he was looking to make club bangers like You Owe Me to gain more radio play. Jay-Z always had more of a universal style. He can get lyrical on a track, but it comes off more slick talking, his forte is more uptempo club bangers and hard hitting tracks. Nas is just a beast on lyrical content, it's when he tries outside of that it comes off forced at times. He settled more into the lyrical style today by the time Stillmatic dropped. Jay has always made music more universally accepted but Nas to me has a better catalogue. Jay has a dope one as well. For damn near 6 straight summers Jay was near or at the top of the game.

[R-Tistic]

RTistic always speaking that real shit. The thing about Nas, and nothing against him, his style is never going to translate into huge sales to the point Jay has had. The problem Nas had earlier in his career is he would change his style and it almost seemed like he was looking to make club bangers like You Owe Me to gain more radio play. Jay-Z always had more of a universal style. He can get lyrical on a track, but it comes off more slick talking, his forte is more uptempo club bangers and hard hitting tracks. Nas is just a beast on lyrical content, it's when he tries outside of that it comes off forced at times. He settled more into the lyrical style today by the time Stillmatic dropped. Jay has always made music more universally accepted but Nas to me has a better catalogue. Jay has a dope one as well. For damn near 6 straight summers Jay was near or at the top of the game.

Yeah that's what it is. It's nothing Nas can really do to have that same style or appeal without appearin to try too hard. I would never say he got "lucky" with "If I ruled the world"...but that track was perfect for him to the extent that he'll probably never be able to have a song that is truly him that still becomes a MAJOR hit like that was. I actually liked "You owe me" because I was a big Timbo fan at the time, and I liked it as a club song, but not as a Nas song...the same way I like "Can u werk with dat" as a club song, but not as DJ Quik song like "Thinkin bout u" and "Trouble".

[notorious^q8I]

^^ from what i remember god's son made alota noise
ppl were lovin made u look
i personally like that album ore than bp2

[d-nice]

RTistic always speaking that real shit. The thing about Nas, and nothing against him, his style is never going to translate into huge sales to the point Jay has had. The problem Nas had earlier in his career is he would change his style and it almost seemed like he was looking to make club bangers like You Owe Me to gain more radio play. Jay-Z always had more of a universal style. He can get lyrical on a track, but it comes off more slick talking, his forte is more uptempo club bangers and hard hitting tracks. Nas is just a beast on lyrical content, it's when he tries outside of that it comes off forced at times. He settled more into the lyrical style today by the time Stillmatic dropped. Jay has always made music more universally accepted but Nas to me has a better catalogue. Jay has a dope one as well. For damn near 6 straight summers Jay was near or at the top of the game.

Yeah that's what it is. It's nothing Nas can really do to have that same style or appeal without appearin to try too hard. I would never say he got "lucky" with "If I ruled the world"...but that track was perfect for him to the extent that he'll probably never be able to have a song that is truly him that still becomes a MAJOR hit like that was. I actually liked "You owe me" because I was a big Timbo fan at the time, and I liked it as a club song, but not as a Nas song...the same way I like "Can u werk with dat" as a club song, but not as DJ Quik song like "Thinkin bout u" and "Trouble".

If I Ruled The World fit his style to a T. That was why I was hesistant when Nas signed with Def Jam. I liked the fact it would give him more exposure but I did not want his album filled with club tracks and crossover songs to gain more fans. Thankfully they did not do that with Hip Hop Is Dead.

[AnybodyKilla]

Xander thinks he knows everthing LMAO!!!

[4108]

uppin'

[Rud]

Were always looking for talented reviewers, if you think you have what it takes submit some of your material to us.

[XaNdEr]

Xander thinks he knows everthing LMAO!!!

 



On the real though:

I'm really honored that a topic is made for me. Fuckin' faggots. You are not even reading my words, when i'm comparing Illmatic with Jay's catalogue you start speaking shit about other "classics" like Doggystyle, lmao.

Tell me what is so creative about any Jay-Z album? He just hires big name producers, throws some recycled lyrics on it, and has no other topics then money, cars and bitches. How in this world can that be more creative then Nas' Illmatic.

Not saying Nas ain't made no poppy music (Nastradamus) but if you want to reply to my words, do it right.

[AnybodyKilla]

^^LMAO i was just playin man, dont even know what the topic was about hahahaha!