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is a State a State if no other nation recognizes it as one?

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Westcoastin':

--- Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on November 28, 2007, 07:18:40 AM ---

Technically, unless there is widespread recognition (international bodies, major western countries), a country would not be technically considered a state. However, that does not change the facts on the ground. And in politics, the facts on the ground determine all.

For example, in the mid to late 90s the Taliban controlled the capital and the majority of Afghanistan. However they were only recognized by three countries. So internationally, their regime was not recognized as the legitimate ruling body. The opposition Northern Alliance was. So it was the NA that chaired Afghanistans seat at the UN, etc.

However, when it come to dealing with Afghanistan, no one went through the NA because while recognized, they were not a factor on the ground. Aid agencies, the US, EU all dealt with the Taliban when it came to human rights, poppy growth, aid etc etc

Thats a case of recognition of government.

The same principle applies to de facto states like Somaliland, or the way Chechnya used to be (before Russian forcibly re-incorporated it) and how Kosovo very well will be like in the future. Whiile not recognized, they have all the trappings of a state. They are, de facto and essentially, a state. Not recognized, but in a way every country recognizes they are independent. If they have to deal with them, they will go them to talk, regardless of recognition or not

As for Somaliland, they are a state, recognition or not. In fact, its a crime that the international world has turned its back on Somaliland. While the  rest of Somalia descends into anarchy and chaos, Somaliland has created a viable democratic system and disarmened its population, while boosting its economy without any international assistance.

--- End quote ---

thats an interesting point,  recognition of government as opposed to recognition of state...    It's like milking a cow without officially telling other farmers you think its an animal

It is clear that official recognition from other bodies is not the only requirement to be a state..  I'm going to argue that Somaliland should be considered one because:

- It has a permanent population (not nomadic)
- It has a defined territory ( it's eastern borders are disputed, but so are the borders of many recognized states )
- It has its own constitution, government and judicial system
- It has its own military (roughly 20 000 active personnel)
- Tech's point.... it has the capacity to have relationships with other states, it has had some dealings with the EU and a few other countries, and will most likely be recognized by the African Union soon

+1 to everyone!

M Dogg™:
Side note... it took years before we recognized the People's Republic of China, as we delt with Taiwan, or as they called themselves... the Republic of China. But everyone in actual China was living in the People's Republic, so we can recognize what we will, the details on the ground are the actual facts. Another side note, the Vatican didn't recognize for many years that the Protestian country of the United States ran the states that were once Mexico (a Catholic country), claiming that California, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado and Utah were still part of Mexico. This is obviously not true as I would be speaking Spanish if that's the case.

Narrator:
I doubt anybody is going to recognize the Pan-African Socialist Republic of America once it comes into existence via my revolution.

That doesn't change the fact that anyone who speaks out against it will lose their hands, or worse.

M Dogg™:

--- Quote from: Foday-muh'fuckin-Sankoh, bitch! on November 30, 2007, 12:38:37 PM ---I doubt anybody is going to recognize the Pan-African Socialist Republic of America once it comes into existence via my revolution.

That doesn't change the fact that anyone who speaks out against it will lose their hands, or worse.

--- End quote ---

not if my Latin States of America comes first.

Narrator:

--- Quote from: M Dogg on November 30, 2007, 12:49:01 PM ---not if my Latin States of America comes first.

--- End quote ---

Never gonna happen.  RUF is taking over shit.  Fuck with us and you lose your hands, bitch!

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