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Quote from: Turf Hitta on March 07, 2008, 08:33:09 PMQuote from: QuietTruth on March 07, 2008, 07:04:03 PMBut it also makes you susceptible to following his rules. What you think everytime you do somethang bad you gon get punished? It ain't like that.OK, well why wouldn't God just make you do the right thing anyway if he has the power to? Just to give himself a chance to put somebody in hell. He gets off on making people suffer. But this is a loving god right?Yup. If it ain't rough it ain't right. If you was God, please don't tell me you would create a world in which you controlled EVERYBODY and EVERYTHANG they did. Where's the fun in that? To suffer is to live..
Quote from: QuietTruth on March 07, 2008, 07:04:03 PMBut it also makes you susceptible to following his rules. What you think everytime you do somethang bad you gon get punished? It ain't like that.OK, well why wouldn't God just make you do the right thing anyway if he has the power to? Just to give himself a chance to put somebody in hell. He gets off on making people suffer. But this is a loving god right?
But it also makes you susceptible to following his rules. What you think everytime you do somethang bad you gon get punished? It ain't like that.
The God of the Old Testament Bible is worse than Hitler.
Like I said, if God punishes people for being the way he made them (susceptible to sin/unconvinced of the existence of God) then he is a vile and disgusting god. Thats like raising a child and telling him all through his childhood that he's worthless and will grow up to be a loser, providing an environment shitty enough to ensure it happens that way and then beating him constantly for it when he does in fact establish himself as a loser. Who was it that said something like "People were lookin for God but found religion instead"
So according to God, it is not perfect to know everything? Knowing everything is nothing better than to be completely ignorant? Mental development is not a virtue according to God? Doesn't it require mental development and intellectual insight to know what is wrong and what is not? Isn't it true that the more you know, the better you'll be able to operate righteously in a complex world?
The only sin I'm apparently guilty of, is not believing in God. And I do not believe that's a sin; it's one of the things I believe in, and I don't believe that my beliefs are sinful. I have no reason to suspect that.Depending on your definition of a lie, I don't think I'm a liar, I've never stolen or treated people in a way that goes against my beliefs. Isn't that exactly what a sin is: to be going against your beliefs? To contradict?
So Jesus had to become flawed (his blood had to be shed), precisely because he was too perfect?Jesus didn't invent a cure for cancer. He can't have been perfect, or sinless. Had he used his capacities better, he maybe could have achieved more; he could have made mankind better. For everything he could have done, but didn't do... Strictly speaking, his failing to achieve
I didn't intend to imply that Jesus committed suicide. But did Jesus do everything he possibly could to remain alive? No. Did he allow himself to be punished and crucified? Yes. Did he really believe in his own guilt? I don't think so. He just let it happen.What he did by sacrifising himself, was pointing yet another finger at the dispicable state of men. He thought of himself as being better than that. He thought of the people as being unworthy of his presence (or else he would have tried to avoid his death, don't you think?).Jesus hated his life among the people. His actions weren't pro life; he let the rulers punish him unjustly. That makes Jesus a sinner, for two reasons:1) Not standing firm behind his beliefs, thus compromising and flipflopping;2) Giving up his life.
Jesus didn't succeed, did he? There still are sins around us everywhere. Now, what kind of perfected warrior willfully lets such evil prevail? That's a contradictio in terminis. You can't be perfect and not fight evil, if perfection and evil are opposed. Jesus didn't love mankind, and he didn't love his life, for a good reason: he didn't believe in any of it. He didn't believe in making mankind better, he didn't believe in enhancing life, he didn't believe in curing sins. Instead, he helped mankind to sin. He's the worst kind of disbeliever you'll ever hear about. If he really believed in God's creation, he would have fought for mankind.
One question every Christian I debate with refuses to answer: If God is the Creator of ALL and he's a LOVING god, then how come he created evil?
Quote from: Turf Hitta on March 07, 2008, 02:41:38 PMLike I said, if God punishes people for being the way he made them (susceptible to sin/unconvinced of the existence of God) then he is a vile and disgusting god. Thats like raising a child and telling him all through his childhood that he's worthless and will grow up to be a loser, providing an environment shitty enough to ensure it happens that way and then beating him constantly for it when he does in fact establish himself as a loser. Who was it that said something like "People were lookin for God but found religion instead"First of all God didn’t just give us free will and that was it, God told Adam what to choose and then told him the consequences of choosing the wrong way so it wasn’t like he was clueless and Adam (man) decided to choose Satan’s wayYou cant blame God for giving us free will, if we didn’t have free will we couldn’t be considered beings we would be objects cause every being has free will even angels have free will, God gives us free will and directs us in the way we should go not for Gods benefit but for oursThe truth is God gave us free will and then told us the right way to go and we disobeyed therefore you can blame god that is like a parent raising the child in the right way (teaching him/her what is right and wrong, providing for him/ her) and then the child ends up being a murderer or rapist how can you blame the parent,?Turf if God made you do the right thing then it isn’t free will he isn’t going to mess with that, the truth is no one has to go to hell because he has provided a way out through the death of Christ
^ Why you so worried about if he's loving or not? Nigga, you sound like you praise Satan.
They always said punishment comes outta love. When your moms put you in the corner for stealing your brothers jolly ranchers, did she ever do that shit outta hate? Nahh, I think she was tryin' to teach you a lesson. Only did it out of love, word?Word.
Quote from: QuietTruth on March 11, 2008, 04:23:20 PMThey always said punishment comes outta love. When your moms put you in the corner for stealing your brothers jolly ranchers, did she ever do that shit outta hate? Nahh, I think she was tryin' to teach you a lesson. Only did it out of love, word?Word.Your mother never intended to have you endure the most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time.
Quote from: Turf Hitta on March 12, 2008, 12:13:47 AMQuote from: QuietTruth on March 11, 2008, 04:23:20 PMThey always said punishment comes outta love. When your moms put you in the corner for stealing your brothers jolly ranchers, did she ever do that shit outta hate? Nahh, I think she was tryin' to teach you a lesson. Only did it out of love, word?Word.Your mother never intended to have you endure the most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time.And what's the 'most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time'?
Man lives in a universe of cause and effect and the consequences of certain causes are inescapable. Fire burns, water drowns, disease germs destroy. These facts have moral implications. Men live in a universe in which the consequences of what they do are inescapable, and therefore their responsibility for what they do is equally inescapable. Without this burden of 'natural law' man could do as he liked with impunity, and there would be no responsibility. God made the universe this way because He is a moral God who makes men responsible beings with freewill to choose how they will act.