Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Barack Obama on Hip-Hop... a great interview
Elevz:
--- Quote from: THERE IS ONLY OVERFIEND on March 03, 2008, 05:32:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: Eleven 2 Three on March 03, 2008, 03:01:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: RETURN OF THE OVERFIEND on March 02, 2008, 08:41:12 PM ---Can't censor art or free speech baby.
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What do freedom of speech and censorship have to do with this?
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Everything, that is the domain of hip-hop, its expression.
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Nothing. This discussion is not about censorship and free speech. Nobody was talking about censoring anything. I believe this discussion actually does have a topic. Stick to it, unless you're trying to make a point by bringing up free speech and censorship, in which case you should definately elaborate.
--- Quote from: THERE IS ONLY OVERFIEND on March 03, 2008, 05:32:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: Eleven 2 Three on March 03, 2008, 03:01:28 AM ---I didn't say you always have to agree with the music you listen to, but the way he speaks, shouldn't violence and mysoginy totally disgust Obama to a level that makes such music unenjoyable to him, after all that he claims he stands for? That's the whole point. I won't be listening to a song from some rapper going in detail about how he's raped some woman (I don't know if there's any such song, but it wouldn't surprise me). I thought Eminem's song Kim was terrifying. So if Obama is really as strong about his beliefs and ideas as he makes you think he is, how can he chill to a Jigga album, singing along to "nigga whaaaat, nigga whooooo?" only afterwards recapping "Well, they do use the N word a little too frequently" and "something I'm really worried about: it's always talking about material things." If you don't like that, how are you going to enjoy the music, when that's all the music is about? Yeah, Jay got flow, but why not listen to Little Brother if you're about the more loving stuff? Why not dig just a little deeper and find something more fitting with who you are and what you stand for?
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Yes you are, thats exactly what you are saying, LOL listen to yourself.
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I can perfectly disagree with the things Bob Dylan stands for, yet I do enjoy most of his music. It's got passion in it and it does have substance. I'm all for passion in music, and I'm all for substance, but I certainly disagree with his hippie views. I'm not saying you should filter all things you don't fully agree with out of your life, because you'd be living on an island if that were the case. You need the intellectual challenge to stay sharp. I don't find people who disagree with me dispicable. To me, ignorance is though. It should be to Obama, who's claiming a prosperous message. He loves the struggle, the flow... Well, you could read a biography for that. Seriously, answer me this:
--- Quote from: Eleven 2 Three on March 03, 2008, 03:01:28 AM ---So if Obama is really as strong about his beliefs and ideas as he makes you think he is, how can he chill to a Jigga album, singing along to "nigga whaaaat, nigga whooooo?" only afterwards recapping "Well, they do use the N word a little too frequently"?
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That's the same as saying: "Violence is wrong, killing people is worse, but the Kim track by Eminem sure is the shit"
Huh?
--- Quote from: THERE IS ONLY OVERFIEND on March 03, 2008, 05:32:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: Eleven 2 Three on March 03, 2008, 03:01:28 AM --- Yeah, Jay got flow, but why not listen to Little Brother if you're about the more loving stuff? Why not dig just a little deeper and find something more fitting with who you are and what you stand for?
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So you are saying paint yourself into a neat picture? Define yourself until you got a neat dictionary definition. Thats the lamest shit I have ever heard and that mentality is the problem with soo much in the world.
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What mentality? The mentality of having beliefs and standing firm by them? The mentality of not selling your soul to the devil? The mentality of knowing what you like and why, knowing who you are, knowing what you appreciate, knowing what you value, knowing what your goals are?
If you really think that's the lamest shit you have ever heard, I won't feel sorry for you because you've deactivated your mind. Go ahead and accuse me of not believing in contradictions. "Be water" my ass. Stand for something, because A is A. If you lack the integrity to stand that firm, you'd better not stand at all.
Elevz:
--- Quote from: M Dogg for Obama on March 03, 2008, 10:00:49 AM ---Obama is 46... is too old to have rocked a PE tape and so why do I expect him to get into Hip-Hop. No presidental candidate has even seen Hip-Hop except to bash it... Bill Clinton included.
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True, Obama definately deserves respect for actually having the open mindedness to peep some hip-hop and see what's going on. I just fail to believe he's really that down with it. Which would be cool, if only he had the integrity to admit that.
Kill:
--- Quote from: Eleven 2 Three on March 02, 2008, 03:37:48 PM ---
I totally see where you're coming from, and as for struggling and making it big, they sure are some great examples of entrepreneurship. Thing is, Obama says he likes their music, yet all I heard in Jay-Z's music last time I checked was exactly what Obama denounces. Why would he listen to that, if he's so much against the content?
Indeed, I'm not the type to support misogynism. That alone makes me an outsider within the hiphop scene. I don't listen to a whole lot of hip-hop anymore and my taste has changed greatly over the past few years (you'll remember me praising Onyx for their great albums in the 90s). I'm a jazz slash folk music man now, but when I listen to hip-hop it'll be Common, De La Soul, Nas, The Roots, Opgezwolle, Jeru The Damaja, Little Brother, Dangerdoom, Madvillain, Boogie Down Productions. Those are the only hip-hop artists in my Last FM top30 - other than that it's pretty much all jazz and some pop/folk classics. No misogyny there.
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I don't know when you checked last time; personally I haven't listened to a lot of Jigga since his pseudo-career end and I did like the Black Album. Jay's music is definitely a lot about materialistic crap, but he's made some more insightful stuff too, from "Can I Live" to "Song Cry" to "December 4th" and he's someone who doesn't take the negative aspects mentioned by Obama himself to a level I'd consider intolerable. He's more machismo than misogyny, he rarely seemed to glorify violence and has usually approached it from a rather analytical perspective, he sure likes bragging but it doesn't usually get to the point where it's sickening, by my personal standards at least. He's a quite intelligent guy; Obama's also mentioned Kanye who's truly an arrogant fuck, but an innovative musician and while he's an asshole, he doesn't take the negative sides mentioned to that high an extent either in my opinion. If Obama had said he was bumping Suga Free, Three 6 Mafia and Trick Daddy it would have been much harder to stomach. In the case of Jay and Kanye I personally think his statement is reasonable and legitimate.
As for the second part of your post, I definitely see where you're coming from. Same here in a way, I'd sell all my hiphop records before I'd give away my favorite Dylan albums. I'm not very interested in most hiphop anymore either, a bit interested maybe, but not much more than in many other genres. But since you've mentioned it yourself, I assume that when you were praising those Onyx albums you didn't really think that all the lyrics on "Bacdafucp" were intellectual gems, right? But you listened to it, cause you thought the stuff was great in many ways. That's what I'm talking about...and while the artists you mentioned are definitely not the G-Unit type rap muhfuckaz, some of them don't have a completely clean sheet either; Nas, while one of the most skilled rappers ever, has proved to be about as good at contradicting himself as Pac, writing gangster stories from a first-person perspective and then condemning violence, next minute recording wannabe-pimp bullshit like "Oochy Wally" and going on like crazy about the ice on his wrist, then preaching about how the ghetto can become a better place while lyrically hanging out with crack peddlers.................and so on. And The Roots' "Game Theory" (the song), for example, is a bit ambivalent too in my opinion with all its references to drugs, guns and money, although you can argue it's supposed to be "descriptive". There is also the type of artists going on about peeling niggaz' caps and then adding "lyrically" to make sure they still fit into the category they're supposed to be in and I personally don't like that either. Bottom line is, listening to the artists you've mentioned is definitely not the same as listening to DPG, 50 Cent or MC Eiht, but I'm just trying to point out that things can become blurrier when you start to look closer, if you know what I mean.
--- Quote from: Foday-muh'fuckin-Sankoh, bitch! on March 02, 2008, 05:01:52 PM ---Eleven 2 Three, you been saying way too much stupid shit lately. What, you trying to set a record for how low can crackers go? You need to think more before you speak, before Allah is forced to cut out your tongue and shove it up your sphincter, so that the next time you shit, you shit on your tongue.
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If Allah has nothing better to do, I feel sorry for him ::)
D-Reborn:
--- Quote from: Kill on March 02, 2008, 03:20:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: Eleven 2 Three on March 02, 2008, 01:31:11 PM ---However, am I the only one who thinks Barack really exposed himself with this one? He listens to gangstarappers and then says he doesn't like the message about mistreating women, glorifying wealth and preaching violence. Umm... How much of a hypocrit can you be? I really fail to see the swag in that one. That's chameleon behavior. That's slickness. That's failing to pass judgement and act accordingly. Is that really the guy you're hoping to become the most important man in the world for the next 8 years?
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He said he listens to these guys, but that doesn't mean he'll necessarily have to agree with everything. I have listened to gangsta rap a lot and I still do at times and I never once agreed with the mysoginism and the glorification of violence prevalent in that genre. That is because there were/are other things to like the music for; it can get too much and there are songs that actually manage to get on my nerves. It sure is slightly ambivalent, but I wouldn't label it "hypocritical"; I got a lot of fucking respect for Jigga for example, cause he made 3 great albums, a lot of great songs and he's an impressive example of a black entrepreneur who started from scratch and has built up something huge. Still, he's done shit songs too and his over-the-top materialism can be annoying. I think generally, you'll just have to draw the line for yourself and decide when things go too far in terms of stuff you disagree with and how much you will take as long as there is a side you like about it too. In Obama's case, it seems to me that he's made a valid point in both paying respect to the positive sides of this music and critisizing the negative sides. The subject is too complex to just "pass judgement" in my opinion, and that's why I agree with him.
I'm not trying to attack you in any way, but I'm curious: Assuming that you're not the type to support mysoginism, do you listen to Biggie? Snoop? Dre? If you think violence should be strictly condemned, do you listen to Pac? Eminem? Big L?
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I'm not interested in any politician but that argument was fuckin dope +1
8) 8) 8)
Kill:
^ thanks, peace 8)
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