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Quote from: Lord Funk aka Ron Burgundy on July 15, 2008, 06:54:50 AMAnyone who thinks Aftermath will leave a lasting legacy is confusing the label with the individuals Dre, Eminem and 50.I actually agree with a lot of what you said in your post, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second and argue against youQuote from: Lord Funk aka Ron Burgundy on July 15, 2008, 06:54:50 AMWhat made labels such as Death Row, Bad Boy and No Limit were that they were movements as much as companies. When you think of any one of those names, for better or worse, you think about more than the music. Think Death Row, think Suge Knight and the logo swinging on chains; think Bad Boy, think a new era in commercial hip-pop and Puffy's shift into mass market culture; think No Limit, think of Master P's relentless work ethic and 'conveyor belt' approach to releasing music....The problem with both Bad Boy and No Limit is they're both seen as hack labels run by people who are good businessmen and know what sells, but who aren't musical geniuses
Anyone who thinks Aftermath will leave a lasting legacy is confusing the label with the individuals Dre, Eminem and 50.
What made labels such as Death Row, Bad Boy and No Limit were that they were movements as much as companies. When you think of any one of those names, for better or worse, you think about more than the music. Think Death Row, think Suge Knight and the logo swinging on chains; think Bad Boy, think a new era in commercial hip-pop and Puffy's shift into mass market culture; think No Limit, think of Master P's relentless work ethic and 'conveyor belt' approach to releasing music.
So while you say that the 'problem' with Bad Boy and No Limit was that they were run by good businessmen who werent musical geniuses, I'd argue that the problem with Aftermath is that it's run by a musical genius who's not a good businessman... Dre will always be known for the quality of his music, but I simply don't believe that Aftermath has acheived, on a corporate and business level, what something like No Limit did, regardless of how much better the end product is.
For all the noise they make and major deals they broker, how many Eminem's and 50 Cent's have Jay-Z and Diddy brought to the table in the last 8 years? For a guy as big as Dre is to not be the biggest artist on his label says something. He's much more of an artist than Puffy but he doesn't try to play the spotlight. Eminem and 50 Cent are bigger stars than Dre. I'll give Jay-Z credit for Kanye but Jay was still the bigger star. Aftermath has 4 Eminem albums that pushed millions, 50's debut was the biggest one in rap ever, and Game did major numbers on his. If Interscope could have got that kind of buzz without Aftermath, they would have. There's a reason Jimmy paid Dre a fortune for those shares. Strictly on artist-based success, you take Diddy, Jay-Z, 50 Cent, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, and these other artist/producers running labels and whether it's joint venture with another label or on their own, how many of them have used their own name value to push a star up higher than they were? Not many examples I can think of.
Will be remembered as Dre biggest mistake, if nothing good happens in the next couple years. Damn, they really fell of hard after "2001"
D12World (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years).
Quote from: Lord Funk aka Ron Burgundy on July 16, 2008, 04:16:19 AMSo while you say that the 'problem' with Bad Boy and No Limit was that they were run by good businessmen who werent musical geniuses, I'd argue that the problem with Aftermath is that it's run by a musical genius who's not a good businessman... Dre will always be known for the quality of his music, but I simply don't believe that Aftermath has acheived, on a corporate and business level, what something like No Limit did, regardless of how much better the end product is.Well no, Aftermath has a musical genius at the top in charge of making sure the product is good, and a business genius, Jimmy, making sure it sells, so it has bothBad Boy and No Limit both had the business side down and not the musical side down, so they're inferior... and Aftermath has sold as much or more than them. I don't see how you and others can say that Aftermath is not a good business - they pretty much have only released hugely popular and high selling records - Eminem's albums, 50 Cent's, Dre's - those were some of the highest selling records ever, so what are they doing wrong as a business?Some people are saying that it's a label where artists go to sit on the shelf or don't bring out an album - but that's a good business move! You don't spend shitloads on promotion if an album will flop, and Dre and Jimmy have made a loooad of great choices which have worked so far - they have sold millions and been critically acclaimed - No Limit didn't do that, and Bad Boy didn't do that... Death Row did that for 2-3 albums before it collapsed because the business man was taking up too much control on the music side, instead of letting the musical genius handle that mostlyDre didn't bring out King T because it would have flopped, he didn't bring out Hitman because it would have flopped - if he'd let those albums come out Aftermath would have been in way worse shape... but instead he put out Eminem and 50 Cent - you can't argue with the success they've had, they're arguable the two most well know people in HipHop!
Quote from: manny1 on July 16, 2008, 03:55:15 AMD12World (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years).
Dre didn't decide that, interscope did.Dre actually wanted to put out a hittman and a King T album
Quote from: Lazar on July 16, 2008, 02:27:09 AMWill be remembered as Dre biggest mistake, if nothing good happens in the next couple years. Damn, they really fell of hard after "2001" Fell off hard? Their biggest success came after that album dropped. I'd love for my biggest mistake to be albums like "Marshall Mathers LP", "Get Rich Or Die Tryin" and "The Documentary".
Quote from: Lazar on July 16, 2008, 02:27:09 AMWill be remembered as Dre biggest mistake, if nothing good happens in the next couple years. Damn, they really fell of hard after "2001" Fell off hard? Their biggest success came after that album dropped. I'd love for my biggest mistake to be albums like "The Marshall Mathers LP", "Get Rich Or Die Tryin" and "The Documentary".
Quote from: Dre-Day on July 16, 2008, 10:37:49 AMDre didn't decide that, interscope did.Dre actually wanted to put out a hittman and a King T album You sure, where does it say that? I thought Dre saw the early reviews for King T's album and they decided to shelve it... and after Hittman wasn't getting too much buzz after 2001 they shelved that too
Just because they were successful doesnīt mean they also did good albums Ok, no doubt that the "The Marshall Mathers LP" was really good, probably Emīs best album. "Get Rich..." was a nice mainstream album, but overall nothing special and "The Documentary" is overated IMO (and Iīm saying that as a Game fan). People just like "The Documentary" that much beacuse Dre did some joints.
What I really meant when I said it was his biggest misstake was that Dre gave the whole power over Aftermath to Jimmy Iovine. Everything Jimmy says is word. With people like Rakim, Game, Bishop, Busta, Em, Stat and Eve on Aftermath it would have been easily the best and the most powerful label in todays Hip-Hop, but with all those drops from the label and all the albums we are waiting for years, itīs far away from beeing the best labels. I really hope for Dre that he get out the contract with Interscope after "Detox" so that he can founds a new label where nobody tell him what he has to do and what not
Quote from: smegma on July 16, 2008, 10:26:47 AMQuote from: manny1 on July 16, 2008, 03:55:15 AMD12World (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years). My bad..meant to say Devil's Night, not D12World....hopefully that's what you found funny!