Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Do you believe in karma?
TraceOneInfinite:
I don't believe in most of the Buddist concepts I used to believe in, and karma is one of them. I started believing in karma when I was younger, really I would say I was an avid believer in it for around ten years from age 15 through age 25. Even as a Muslim I believed in it, because we have a similar concept in Islam, and that concept is that any good that you do Allah will reward you for it; or that likewise, the Qu'ran says "any bad that befalls you it is because of what your own hands have set forth".
Qu'ran verse 8:51
"This is for what your own hands have sent on before, and because Allah is not in the least unjust to the servants"
But I experienced the bad consequences of a belief in karma first hand. I kept making effort and self-sacrifice thinking that one day it would pay off and come back around to me, and I'd have to say I reached after many years there came a point when I finally had to admit that not only had it not paid off, but that I possibly even WORSE off than before. Which caused me to later research and find that my belief had not been rational.
So let's look at the concept of karma logically and we will see that it is false. First of all, it works upon the belief that if you give "good" to others than that "good" will come back to you. One problem is that "good" and "bad" are SUBJECTIVE terms. What is good for one person is not good for another. An easy example of this is the husband or wife who sacrifices greatly for their partner and believes they have done so much "good" for their loved one, and their partner leaves them for somebody who beats the shit out of them every night.
Obviously it was more "good" for that woman to have the shit beat out of her every night, rather than have a man who was sensitive and gentle with her.
Another example would be the crusades. Obviously those Christian, Muslims, Jews, who sacrifice their own happiness and struggle for God believe they are bringing great "good" to the world. While their enemy believes they are bringing great "harm" to the world. Or maybe even their fellow Christian or Muslim brother hates them as well, because they think they are distorting the religion. Look at Usama Bin Laden for example. To some Muslims him and his followers are great examples of self-sacrifice for the sake of a greater good, while to other Muslims they may say he's caused great destruction to befall on the Muslim world, or some say that he's distorting the religion of Islam and some may even say he's not really a Muslim at all.... or whatever... you have a million opinions because THE TRUTH IS SUBJECTIVE!
Let's take a less extreme example. Say Angelina Jolie for example doing charity in Africa. So maybe we say she's doing great "good" by giving to children in Africa. But maybe for Brad Pitt he feels he's being neglected and his needs aren't being met because she is busy saving children around the world.
These are all just some hypothetical examples to show what is "good" for one person can be "bad" for another.
Bottom line: If you want to bring about good for yourself, then don't go around thinking you are doing good for the world because the world may end up rejecting your charity. SO GIVE TO YOURSELF! ULTIMATELY YOUR OWN HAPPINESS IS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN CONTROL, AND SOMETIMES WE CAN'T EVEN MAKE OUR OWN SELVES HAPPY, SO HOW NAIVE IS IT TO THINK WE ARE MAKING OTHERS HAPPY?
Þŕiņçë:
--- Quote from: Floydness on December 01, 2008, 11:36:46 AM ---What I think? I think im confused lol... I dont know what to believe anymore.. At this point in my life I feel as though there are so many explanations as to why and how things happen.. A big part of me believes in karma but the real question I ask myself is "how do I know?". Seriously, how do I know that karma exists? The truth is that I dont know and I dont think anyone really knows, everyone in life just adds their 2 cents (sometimes more) to theories and nobody REALLY knows... I think that its all a matter of what you believe. I also strongly believe in the laws of attraction, so if you believe in karma so much (even subconsciously) you will see how karma is effective in your life. Ive also though about destiny.. Do we all have a destiny or are we destined to make our own?Is everything pre-planned or do we make our own plans that somehow lead us to where we end up in life.. is it up to us? And if it is, to what degree? Is this knowledge all really usefull or is a waste of time and energy because I wont ever know the answer? A lot of things run through my mind... It seems as though I was born in a state of confussion. Will I ever know the answer? If not me, who? ???
--- End quote ---
Truth is karma, your destiny,the bible and yes, santa claus are all fake. But its just, well, sort of common sense that if you do good, good is sure to come back around. Oh and this is probably a bad example but if you really need proof that karma exists, i bet if you murder someone you will be locked in a cage! ;)
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: The Prince on December 01, 2008, 01:23:36 PM ---
But its just, well, sort of common sense that if you do good, good is sure to come back around.
--- End quote ---
But what is "good"? Because what is "good" for one person can be bad for another person.
Even if you went around smiling in people's faces there would be someone who said, "I hate that mutherfucker smiling all the time, who the fuck does he think he is, why is he happy and I'm sad, I hate that guy!"
You could even say that the Buddists in Tibet that believe in Karma and believe they are doing so much "good" by meditating all day, are just a drain on the Tibetan economy.
ωεεźγ ғ:
Im a shaolin kung fu practioner so i avidly believe in karma. But my actions are not based on the end result, i do my duty and then let everything else take care of itself. Its pretty funny that those who denounce karma, selfishly state that they "self-sacrificed" thinking that it would pay-off but they ended up WORSE than before, the works of god/karma/laws of universe, work in such magical ways that you can not truly discount that doing good things for other people did not work for you becuase you had not won the lottery that upcoming week, but if someone is wishfully confessing this to me on his deathbed, that he selfsacrificed but ended up worse than before i would be more ept on listening to him because he has experienced the full length of life and karma was no good to him. But i laugh at those who are like 20 years old and think that there is no good waiting for them anymore and that all the good things they have done are gone to waste. Just like truth is the daughter of time, patience is the father of karma.
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: ωεεźγ ғ on December 01, 2008, 01:35:21 PM ---Im a shaolin kung fu practioner so i avidly believe in karma. But my actions are not based on the end result, i do my duty and then let everything else take care of itself. Its pretty funny that those who denounce karma, selfishly state that they "self-sacrificed" thinking that it would pay-off but they ended up WORSE than before, the works of god/karma/laws of universe, work in such magical ways that you can not truly discount that doing good things for other people did not work for you becuase you had not won the lottery that upcoming week, but if someone is wishfully confessing this to me on his deathbed, that he selfsacrificed but ended up worse than before i would be more ept on listening to him because he has experienced the full length of life and karma was no good to him. But i laugh at those who are like 20 years old and think that there is no good waiting for them anymore and that all the good things they have done are gone to waste. Just like truth is the daughter of time, patience is the father of karma.
--- End quote ---
But how do you know that you are doing "good"?
For example, if you bring someone a gift, how do you know they will like your gift? They may dislike your gift, and may be annoyed that now they have to fake like they like your gift, and use it in front of you, when in reality they'd rather you hadn't given them the gift at all. So now your actually wasting their time and doing them harm.
On the other hand, let's say Bill Gates works hard because he wants to be rich and successful so he can buy things he wants, but while doing this for selfish means, he employs millions of people and provides us with technology that makes our lives better. He was doing it to be selfish, yet he brought great good to the world by his selfishness.
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