Lifestyle > Train of Thought
The new white nationalism - WHAT we stand for
Jared Taylor:
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 01, 2009, 11:32:45 PM ---Do you think that Muslim hatred toward the west is a strictly religious phenomenon?
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Religion is an important part of it, in large part because Islam has always been relatively intolerant of non-believers, and anyone who is critical of Islam. To be fair, there was a time when Christianity was worse, but modern Islam is still a highly intolerant religion as it exists today. Religious hatred is a very big part of it.
But no, religion is not the only factor. A lot of it has to do with the decline of the Muslim world from the heights that it reached from the 8th to 13th centuries. They're bitter that they've been surpassed by non-Muslims. Then there's the fact that most of the Muslim world got very lucky (they happened to be sitting on oil), which means that they have never had to do much work to make money. Anyone will tell you that people in that sort of position tend to become childish and out of touch with reality.
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 01, 2009, 11:32:45 PM --- If so, how do years of western infiltration and exploitation of Arab and Muslim countries figure in their antagonism toward the west?.
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Western demand for oil is, relatively speaking, relatively recent in history. The Muslim world has been antagonistic towards the West since long before our economies became dependent upon oil. Anyway, I am also curious to know how you define exploitation.
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 01, 2009, 11:32:45 PM ---You also don't mention that violent forms of resistance practiced by Muslims are far surpassed by Western violence. Would you also attribute Western violence to the inherent evil of various western religions or cultures?
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In what way? Because of the fact that whenever we bomb enemy targets, lots of civilians tend to get killed?
Also, here's the thing - Muslim violence goes back a very, VERY long time. If we were to tally up total kills for Islam, the Muslims have surpassed us by quite a bit.
I TO DA GEEZY:
So Muslim hatred toward the west has nothing to do with what the west has been doing in the middle east for the last couple of decades?A US sponsored coup in Iran to install a brutal dictator? The support for dictatorships like Saudi Arabia that make sure the money from oil goes to the west-not to the people of the region-has nothing to do with it? British occupation? U.S support for Israeli occupation and aggression ? US support for monsters like Sadam?. None of this matters? you wanna tell me Muslims don't mind the robbery and destruction and all they care about is religion? It takes a leap of faith. Even if we grant that there is intolerance in the Muslim religion (as there is in virtually any religion), the west did nothing to contribute to Muslim intolerance with its destructive actions?. I guess Bush was right then, they DO hate you for your freedom.Come on man.
Secondly,western violence is far superior in its "achievements" if only for the tremendous imbalance of power the west enjoys. I don't think anyone would dispute it. As for tallying up total kills throughout history, do you also include inter-European warfare for hundreds of years and the genocide of millions of native Americans?
But you haven't answered my question. Why don't you attribute western violence to western cultures and religions like you do with Islam?
Kill:
Ok, you're not a Nazi Jared but you get a lot of stuff wrong.
--- Quote from: Jared Taylor on January 26, 2009, 08:58:20 PM ---(2.) Islam - It is the position of NCF/AmRen that the religion of Islam is a very wicked and intolerant faith which aims to become dominant over the entire world. The modern-day jihadist movement represents the most violent and ambitious incarnation of Islam yet, but NCF/AmRen believes that Islam is fundamentally a very dangerous belief system that is antithetical to human progress. Right now, many countries in Europe are, in a slow death wish, inviting hoards of Muslims into their cities, many of whom hate the West and want to replace it with some sort of caliphate. NCF/AmRen rejects the traditional anti-Semitic white nationalists who believe Jews are the enemy and are willing to cooperate with Muslims (as David Duke did in 2006 when he met with Iranian President Ahmoud Ahmadinejad). We believe that right now, the greatest threat to Western white European/American civilization comes from Islamic immigrants. We support a policy of deporting Muslims who espouse jihadist views, and limiting Islamic immigration generally as much as possible.
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Islam is rotten to the core, but so is Christianity. Yes, Islam (and most specifically Islamism) is a prime example of how self-righteous, pugnacious and plain dangerous religion can be, but religion in general is inimical to progress in contemporary society. The world's least religious societies are its most progressive ones, and the problem in Islamic societies might partly be the specific religion itself, but to a great extent it's the degree of religiousness in that society. If you compare Turkey to the Lebanon, you should get the picture. And I'll have to go with I TO DA GEEZY in asking how you can attribute all the wrong done in the Muslim world to Islam and don't do the same for western culture. That's a double standard and a loophole for people like you to support religious conservatism. If you were consequent, you'd be a strict atheist.
Secondly, apparently you don't know the first thing about immigration politics (and policies) in Europe. What you're right about is that, sadly, a lot of European Muslims have trouble coping with Western beliefs and that's a very serious problem which undoubtedly is related to Islam itself. However, the statement that European countries are "inviting hoards of Muslims into their cities" is way more off than the statement that you are a Nazi.
--- Quote ---(5.) White supremacy - It is the position of NCF/AmRen that there is no scale on which racial differences can all be ranked so as to draw across-the-board conclusions about racial ‘superiority' or ‘inferiority'. t is certainly true that in some important traits—intelligence, law-abidingness, sexual restraint, academic performance, resistance to disease—whites can be considered ‘superior' to blacks. At the same time, in exactly these same traits, North Asians appear to be ‘superior' to whites.
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Intelligence? What are you basing that one on, ACT scores? If there is any evidence that there is any biological aspect to the Asian > White > Black issue in the IQ department, I'd like to see it. The resistance-to-disease-thing seems kinda new to me as well. And since, from what I know, about 90% or something of genetic diversity among our species are exclusive to Africa, this seems to make little sense from a biological perspective, unless it was the 10% best genes that made it out of Africa. If so, show me.
--- Quote ---(6.) Religion - Although most of NCF/AmRen's members are white Protestants, our religion does not figure in any way in our arguments. Our views are not based upon a perceived "Christian identity"; they are based upon scientific research and statistics. Our white nationalism is a secular, scientific nationalism. It is not like 1940s European fascism (linked closely with Christianity in many countries) in this sense. Theological explanations do not figure in our views of blacks, Muslims, Latinos, or other minorities.
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I see that, but they should, negatively. If you don't condemn the Bible as much as you condemn the Qu'Ran, you got a credibility problem. The fact that the Qu'Ran is even slightly more belligerent and that at this very point in history, "Christian" countries are culturally ahead of Islamic ones doesn't take away from the fact that general intolerance and a pretty repetitive ongoing clash with science is as fundamental a problem for white Protestants as it is for your run-of-the-mill Al-Qaida basket case.
Jared Taylor:
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 02, 2009, 12:30:24 PM ---So Muslim hatred toward the west has nothing to do with what the west has been doing in the middle east for the last couple of decades?A US sponsored coup in Iran to install a brutal dictator? The support for dictatorships like Saudi Arabia that make sure the money from oil goes to the west-not to the people of the region-has nothing to do with it? British occupation? U.S support for Israeli occupation and aggression ? US support for monsters like Sadam?. None of this matters? you wanna tell me Muslims don't mind the robbery and destruction and all they care about is religion? It takes a leap of faith. Even if we grant that there is intolerance in the Muslim religion (as there is in virtually any religion), the west did nothing to contribute to Muslim intolerance with its destructive actions?. I guess Bush was right then, they DO hate you for your freedom.Come on man.
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First of all, I am not a Bush supporter.
Anyway, you refuse to answer my main question - is it not true that Islamic civilization is pretty fucked-up? And that most of what they've been through is their own fault? And Muslim hatred for the West certainly does go back way before most of the shit you've listsed (all of which took place in the 20th century). Islamic teachings have stipulated that the goal of Muslims must be to expand Islam and kill infidels. They would hate us regardless of what we did or did not do.
Anyway, the thing is...what about the stuff we did to HELP Muslims? Aside from the fact that I'm of the opinion colonialism probably helped those illiterate savages far more than it hurt them, what about the U.S. aiding the Afghan Mujahideen? Or saving Kuwait and Saudi Arabia from destruction? Aiding Albanian Muslims in Kosovo? It's weird how none of that stuff seems to figure in their world view.
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 02, 2009, 12:30:24 PM ---Secondly,western violence is far superior in its "achievements" if only for the tremendous imbalance of power the west enjoys. I don't think anyone would dispute it. As for tallying up total kills throughout history, do you also include inter-European warfare for hundreds of years and the genocide of millions of native Americans?
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I meant Muslim killings of Christians, or other non-Muslims. The Armenian Genocide alone makes most European genocides look pretty tame.
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on February 02, 2009, 12:30:24 PM ---But you haven't answered my question. Why don't you attribute western violence to western cultures and religions like you do with Islam?
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Because right now, most of the West lives under civilized democracies in which criticism and free speech is tolerated. Whereas most of the Muslim world is in roughly the same place we were 500 years ago, if not farther back.
Answer me this: Is it not true that Western democracies do not go to war with each other? Actually, democracies in general don't go to war with each other.
Jared Taylor:
--- Quote from: Kill on February 02, 2009, 02:50:14 PM ---Islam is rotten to the core, but so is Christianity. Yes, Islam (and most specifically Islamism) is a prime example of how self-righteous, pugnacious and plain dangerous religion can be, but religion in general is inimical to progress in contemporary society. The world's least religious societies are its most progressive ones, and the problem in Islamic societies might partly be the specific religion itself, but to a great extent it's the degree of religiousness in that society. If you compare Turkey to the Lebanon, you should get the picture. And I'll have to go with I TO DA GEEZY in asking how you can attribute all the wrong done in the Muslim world to Islam and don't do the same for western culture. That's a double standard and a loophole for people like you to support religious conservatism. If you were consequent, you'd be a strict atheist.
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I'm actually not terribly religious, though I respect the power of the good Protestant values that built this country. Also, does it ever interest you that so many atheist socialists and Marxists seem more sympathetic to the religious fascist Islamists than they are to the (mostly) secular West?
Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion about Christianity. But the fact, which you don't seem to acknowledge, is that Islamic societies are overwhelmingly far more tolerant than Christian societies. Islam does not tolerate criticism, as the Muhammad cartoon controversy and the Salman Rushdie affair shows. It takes FAR more bravery to criticize Islam for the simple fact that there is always a threat of Islamic violence in the background. Criticism of the Bible is available everywhere in America, if you choose not to believe in it. Whereas Islamic governments ban any sort of criticism at all. This is well-documented.
Christianity went through a Reformation. Islam needs to do the same, or it needs to be wiped out. And frankly, I'd prefer the latter.
--- Quote from: Kill on February 02, 2009, 02:50:14 PM ---Secondly, apparently you don't know the first thing about immigration politics (and policies) in Europe. What you're right about is that, sadly, a lot of European Muslims have trouble coping with Western beliefs and that's a very serious problem which undoubtedly is related to Islam itself. However, the statement that European countries are "inviting hoards of Muslims into their cities" is way more off than the statement that you are a Nazi.
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You mean they aren't inviting lots of Muslims? That's odd. If you ever want to check the BNP web site, you'll find the truth about that. I am aware that some European governments are in the habits of disowning the policies which let these savages in their countries, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.
--- Quote from: Kill on February 02, 2009, 02:50:14 PM ---Intelligence? What are you basing that one on, ACT scores? If there is any evidence that there is any biological aspect to the Asian > White > Black issue in the IQ department, I'd like to see it. The resistance-to-disease-thing seems kinda new to me as well. And since, from what I know, about 90% or something of genetic diversity among our species are exclusive to Africa, this seems to make little sense from a biological perspective, unless it was the 10% best genes that made it out of Africa. If so, show me.
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Please read my web site and you can see some of the stuff I've posted. And no, ACT scores are not the basis.
--- Quote from: Kill on February 02, 2009, 02:50:14 PM ---I see that, but they should, negatively. If you don't condemn the Bible as much as you condemn the Qu'Ran, you got a credibility problem. The fact that the Qu'Ran is even slightly more belligerent and that at this very point in history, "Christian" countries are culturally ahead of Islamic ones doesn't take away from the fact that general intolerance and a pretty repetitive ongoing clash with science is as fundamental a problem for white Protestants as it is for your run-of-the-mill Al-Qaida basket case.
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Yes, but again, very few (read: almost none) Christians kill people who disagree with them. Whereas the Islamic world issues death threats to critics on a regular basis. Muhammad himself was known to criticize those who disagreed with him. I'm not aware of Jesus doing that.
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