Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Any of ya'll ready to retract your ridiculous "LeBron>Kobe" claims yet?
GangstaBoogy:
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 05, 2009, 10:44:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: Denny Crane on June 05, 2009, 10:39:42 AM ---Right now Kobe Bryant is the best player in the world and there is no doubt about that. What Lebron had to do though this postseason in spite of his teammates pathetic performances was amazing and the guy is only 24 but yeah right now Kobe is still the best. That 3 point play he made early in the 4th qtr last night was beyond special.
--- End quote ---
LOL...flip-floppin is okay when you admit you were wrong. you should apologize for all that bullshit you've talked in the past couple months.
--- End quote ---
No the funny part is all year we kept hearing "Cleveland is scary, Cleveland is looking impossible to beat". But as soon as they lose its right back to "well thats cuz Lebron had to do it all by himself". Make up your minds people.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 05, 2009, 05:26:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 05, 2009, 05:11:55 PM ---
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 05, 2009, 02:37:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 05, 2009, 12:57:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on June 05, 2009, 12:48:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 05, 2009, 12:33:27 PM ---^that's some female ass shit...I feel bad for dudes who think like that and speak from emotion as opposed to logic. :-\
--- End quote ---
but you speak from you emotions all the time LMAO.
you love Kobe; love = emotion.
your emotions just make you always speak positively about him.
--- End quote ---
lol NIK cant see it, because he's in love. So he doesnt realize how ridiculous he looks to everyone else. He thinks all these Laker fans (mostly cheerleaders) agree with him, when in reality more of the time they dont. They just dont speak up. A lot of them might think Kobe is better then LeBron, and thats fine. Thats their opinion. But they dont agree with him when he makes idiotic comments about players like Kwame Brown bein the next great thing, or Farmar, or Sasha, or Bynum > Howard lol. What NIK has done over the years, is say the Lakers are the best ALL the time. So that during that one instance (maybe this year) when they are...he can say "i told you so". Completely ignoring the fact that it has been YEARS since anyone could say that.
--- End quote ---
Kobe is by far the best player on the planet and there's nothing ridiculous about that claim. there is, however, something very ridiculous about the overpraise LeBron has received this whole season.
--- End quote ---
The reason people think youre a joke on this forum, is because of this kind of shit lol A huge portion of the basketball world (analysts, media, fans, etc.) say LeBron is the best right now. I think basketball is complex enough that you cant have "one" best player. Only with MJ was there a clear cut "best". There hasnt been since him, and there wasnt before him. There have been groups of players that were the best at different times. But to claim that saying LeBron is the best is ridiculous...when SOOOO many others say he is, only makes your "Kobe is the best" claim look that much more silly.
--- End quote ---
notice how you say "people think" because you wanna feel supported in your arguments against...lol. just speak for yourself, son. Magic was the best of his time, Jordan was the best of his, and Kobe is the best now. Kobe=clear cut best. even the LeBron dickriders are starting to see it again. get with the program.
--- End quote ---
What he's saying is that with Jordan there was no argument. During the entire 80s it was "Magic or Larry?" and whether you personally think Larry wasn't at the same level (an opinion that would flip flop completely if Larry was the Laker in the argument) isn't the issue. The issue is there was an argument. What was the argument in the 90s? When you say best NBA player of the 90s will any NBA analyst, hardcore fan, player, coach, etc say anyone other than Jordan? The answer is no. In the 80s maybe 95% would say either Magic or Larry with the other 5% maybe saying someone else. Since Jordan if you ask who has been the most valuable player in the league no where near 100% of the people will say Kobe. Shaq would get most of the votes, and then Kobe and Duncan would be debated (yeah big men and guards are different but no one argues "Larry, Magic, or Jabbar?". Best is best and best means most likely to make your team a winner). And today right now, the fact that they even debate LeBron vs Kobe. The fact that you even take time out to debate it. Proves with out any doubt that Kobe is not ahead of the pack the way Jordan in the 90s was.
Would a Jordan fan even enter a thread "Jordan vs Barkley" or "Jordan vs Hakeem"? The answer is no. Unless you're just a complete twit. If there was a thread tomorrow about "Who is the greatest Miami Dolphins QB of all time?" all you would see would be two or three posts that say Dan Marino and then the thread would fade away. Because if someone was stupid enough to mention Griese or Morall, a response to those ridiculous claims wouldn't be warranted and the thread would fade away.
So just accept it; Kobe will never be seen like Jordan was in the 90s.
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 06, 2009, 06:18:33 AM ---
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 05, 2009, 05:26:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 05, 2009, 05:11:55 PM ---
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 05, 2009, 02:37:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 05, 2009, 12:57:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on June 05, 2009, 12:48:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 05, 2009, 12:33:27 PM ---^that's some female ass shit...I feel bad for dudes who think like that and speak from emotion as opposed to logic. :-\
--- End quote ---
but you speak from you emotions all the time LMAO.
you love Kobe; love = emotion.
your emotions just make you always speak positively about him.
--- End quote ---
lol NIK cant see it, because he's in love. So he doesnt realize how ridiculous he looks to everyone else. He thinks all these Laker fans (mostly cheerleaders) agree with him, when in reality more of the time they dont. They just dont speak up. A lot of them might think Kobe is better then LeBron, and thats fine. Thats their opinion. But they dont agree with him when he makes idiotic comments about players like Kwame Brown bein the next great thing, or Farmar, or Sasha, or Bynum > Howard lol. What NIK has done over the years, is say the Lakers are the best ALL the time. So that during that one instance (maybe this year) when they are...he can say "i told you so". Completely ignoring the fact that it has been YEARS since anyone could say that.
--- End quote ---
Kobe is by far the best player on the planet and there's nothing ridiculous about that claim. there is, however, something very ridiculous about the overpraise LeBron has received this whole season.
--- End quote ---
The reason people think youre a joke on this forum, is because of this kind of shit lol A huge portion of the basketball world (analysts, media, fans, etc.) say LeBron is the best right now. I think basketball is complex enough that you cant have "one" best player. Only with MJ was there a clear cut "best". There hasnt been since him, and there wasnt before him. There have been groups of players that were the best at different times. But to claim that saying LeBron is the best is ridiculous...when SOOOO many others say he is, only makes your "Kobe is the best" claim look that much more silly.
--- End quote ---
notice how you say "people think" because you wanna feel supported in your arguments against...lol. just speak for yourself, son. Magic was the best of his time, Jordan was the best of his, and Kobe is the best now. Kobe=clear cut best. even the LeBron dickriders are starting to see it again. get with the program.
--- End quote ---
What he's saying is that with Jordan there was no argument. During the entire 80s it was "Magic or Larry?" and whether you personally think Larry wasn't at the same level (an opinion that would flip flop completely if Larry was the Laker in the argument) isn't the issue. The issue is there was an argument. What was the argument in the 90s? When you say best NBA player of the 90s will any NBA analyst, hardcore fan, player, coach, etc say anyone other than Jordan? The answer is no. In the 80s maybe 95% would say either Magic or Larry with the other 5% maybe saying someone else. Since Jordan if you ask who has been the most valuable player in the league no where near 100% of the people will say Kobe. Shaq would get most of the votes, and then Kobe and Duncan would be debated (yeah big men and guards are different but no one argues "Larry, Magic, or Jabbar?". Best is best and best means most likely to make your team a winner). And today right now, the fact that they even debate LeBron vs Kobe. The fact that you even take time out to debate it. Proves with out any doubt that Kobe is not ahead of the pack the way Jordan in the 90s was.
Would a Jordan fan even enter a thread "Jordan vs Barkley" or "Jordan vs Hakeem"? The answer is no. Unless you're just a complete twit. If there was a thread tomorrow about "Who is the greatest Miami Dolphins QB of all time?" all you would see would be two or three posts that say Dan Marino and then the thread would fade away. Because if someone was stupid enough to mention Griese or Morall, a response to those ridiculous claims wouldn't be warranted and the thread would fade away.
So just accept it; Kobe will never be seen like Jordan was in the 90s.
--- End quote ---
Here's the thing, I sort of agree with you, but I also think that this argument has a WAAAY different background than the MJ era.
In 1991, we got the dream match up, Magic Johnson and his 5 rings, going against Michael who was going for number 1, and the commercial buzz was surrounding MJ. Nike and the NBA was pushing Michael, because even though Magic was only 31, he had a lot of miles in him. Of course MJ won, he beat the previous best, Magic retired because of HIV and the rest is history. There was an undisputed best, and each and every year MJ proved it over and over again.
When MJ retired, no one beat him, so there was a scrabble to the crown, I'd even argue that the Spurs were more dominate than the Lakers for longer, as even though the Lakers 3peated, the Spurs did win 4. So in 9 years, the Lakers and Spurs won 7 titles between them, and appeared in 8. So the argument was alive between Shaq and Duncan, though when Shaq was with the Lakers it leaned Shaq, but Duncan had a right to the crown too.
In 2003, the whole turned upside down. Without a doubt, the Lakers were building for Shaq to age, and Kobe to take over. In the 2002-2003 season, the Lakers missed the finals, but Kobe averaged 30ppg and was over taken Shaq as the best Laker. Then the rape trail. I'll argue that the rape trail screwed Kobe over so much in terms of endorsements and MVP awards. After Shaq left in 2003, Kobe was the best player in the league, the Lakers traded Shaq for young players to complement their young star, but it was a building process. At the same time, Kobe dominated the league, but due to the rape trail, there was not Kobe commercials, there was no Kobe in lyrics, Kobe was a beast, but there was no calls going his way in games. Instead the MVP awards that he should have won went to Steve Nash, a much more safe player to call your best in the eyes of the public. Kobe was scoring 81 points, had multiple 60 point games, leading a team that outside of him would be pushing for number 1 pick in the lottery and taking them to game 7 with the number 1 seed. But the image of Kobe is done.
Last year, the Lakers finally came to play with Kobe, and it was suppose to be Kobe's year. They finally awarded him the MVP, even though it should have been Pauls year, and the Lakers ran through the NBA playoffs. Experts picked the Lakers to win it all, even though across from them was not one future Hall of Famer, but 3. Last year, the league finally market Kobe, but it was not to be, and the league knows that at 30, and all the miles on those knees, time is coming.
Enter LeBron, Lebron is the future, his the most physically dominating player since Shaq, and I'd argue that LeBron today is like Dr. J in the 70's, such a great athlete that players in him era are not even close to his level. The differents is that in MJ's era, MJ was not the best athlete, so many players in the 90's could claim that title. MJ was the best player, the most skilled that the hungriest player to ever lace up snickers. Kobe is that now, Kobe is not the best athlete, but Kobe is the most skilled. The NBA is ready to market LeBron to the moon, and the fact that people have a negative opinion on Kobe mean that people are willing to buy LeBron>Kobe. From 2003-2009, it's been all Kobe, best player, but the league did reflect that. Now Kobe is at the point were he will not be denied. I've never seen Kobe this determined. If this keeps up, look for a Laker repeat next year. I don't see a 3peat, but I do see back to back. Kobe will no be denied, and after these finals, it will be settled. Kobe >> LeBron, for now.
Shallow:
My point is still clear M Dogg, as long as you still even have to argue it Kobe is not the current MJ. There was no argument when MJ had the crown. People even argue if he hadn't retired in the first place the Bulls would have had 8 straight titles. I'm not saying Kobe isn't the best right now. I'm saying if he is he isn't as much better than the rest as Jordan was better than the rest. And he also wasn't in the argument as long as Larry and Magic were (not yet anyway). He also isn't yet as much better than the rest as Shaq and Duncan were. If he wins this series the way he won last game then he might be. If he wins next year too then he definitely will be.
I don't like comparing Duncan or Shaq then vs Kobe now would lose because I don't know. Would any of the Championship team Spurs lose to this years Lakers? I don't know. They can never play each other. Would Shaq in his prime on this years Magic beat these Lakers? It's not possible to know.
But it is possible to judge whether Kobe is considered on top the same way Jordan was, and the result of that as of right now is no he isn't on top the same way.
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 06, 2009, 08:12:25 AM ---My point is still clear M Dogg, as long as you still even have to argue it Kobe is not the current MJ. There was no argument when MJ had the crown. People even argue if he hadn't retired in the first place the Bulls would have had 8 straight titles. I'm not saying Kobe isn't the best right now. I'm saying if he is he isn't as much better than the rest as Jordan was better than the rest. And he also wasn't in the argument as long as Larry and Magic were (not yet anyway). He also isn't yet as much better than the rest as Shaq and Duncan were. If he wins this series the way he won last game then he might be. If he wins next year too then he definitely will be.
I don't like comparing Duncan or Shaq then vs Kobe now would lose because I don't know. Would any of the Championship team Spurs lose to this years Lakers? I don't know. They can never play each other. Would Shaq in his prime on this years Magic beat these Lakers? It's not possible to know.
But it is possible to judge whether Kobe is considered on top the same way Jordan was, and the result of that as of right now is no he isn't on top the same way.
--- End quote ---
As I was saying though, it seemed like last year was built as Kobe's year, the NBA put money into the Lakers/Celtics, and the whole best player vs. 3 all-stars. This year, they wanted Lebron/Kobe bad, with Lebron winning. They are building to the MJ/Magic series.
I wasn't trying to argue past vs. present, I was trying to go down the line. From Magic to MJ, to Shaq/Duncan, to Nash/Kobe, to now with Kobe/Lebron. I wouldn't argue, oh 2003 Spurs beat 2009 Lakers, who knows.
I'm also saying that right now, Kobe is on a level that I've never seen him reach, and at a level I only saw MJ reach during his first 3peat. When the Lakers win, I think the argument is closed over Kobe/LeBron, until LeBron comes back with a winning team, Kobe will have won the argument. It's more like late 80's, you know MJ is waiting for his turn, but Magic and Bird were just on top of their game.
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