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John Barry just said...
you gon always be my latin queen bitch:
haha for real muffuccaz hoppin on the wagon like its nuthin
if kobe would have lost, he and others would have said different shit
FUCK THA NBA
--- Quote from: Don Jacob on June 14, 2009, 09:13:14 PM ---kobe is the best player in the game....AND you can put him up there with jordan...hmmmmmmmmmmmmm band wagon jumper.
this ring doesn't change kobe's place in history IMO, but it definitely still puts him over lebron. i think if kobe wins 2 more he's over magic, wins 3 more he's over jordan no doubt. but he's still 3rd amongst all time guards, second amongst shooting guards.
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Now_Im_Not_Banned:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 17, 2009, 01:06:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on June 15, 2009, 12:30:24 AM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 14, 2009, 11:37:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: Antonio on June 14, 2009, 11:17:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on June 14, 2009, 10:11:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 14, 2009, 09:46:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: el creepo on June 14, 2009, 09:31:51 PM ---^ I disagree in a sense
7 over 6 would do it, in my opinion
but until he even gets 6, he shouldn't be mentioned in front of Jordan
5 still won't be enough, he needs 6 or 7 to even argue about the 2 players
7 is insane though, I think that would say somethin.. ya know?
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I get what youre saying. I just think there are SO many factors to being an all time great. Kobe will, without a doubt, go down as one of the best all time players. This is the reason I dont see Kobe ever surpassing Jordan. When Jordan was in the league, there were a ton of great players before him. There was Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Dr J, etc...etc. BUT, in the midst of his career...there was already no doubt that he was the best ever. You KNEW you were watching the best player ever. There was hardly any debate against it. Kobe, being in the later part of his career, is still trying to prove he is the best Laker ever.
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what you have is someone who's in position to pass Jordan, and it wasn't until Jordan's comeback that you truly knew he was the greatest. In the first 3 peat, you saw greatness, and people put him up there with the greats, but there was a ton of people that still argued Russell or Magic was the greatest, that Wilt was more dominate or that Larry Bird had that will. What Jordan did in the second 3 peat was rest all doubts, and in the decline of his career, he continued to dominate everyone, he was more dominate that a young Shaq, he had more will to win than anyone else in NBA history, and his leadership skills were so far advance that only Magic Johnson could have had the loyalty Jordan had. Jordan put to rest everythingi in his second comeback. He retires striking out in minor league baseball, his one of the all time greats, but his not the greatest, that's for debate.
Muhammad Ali called himself the greatest. But until he beat George Foreman, and showed his will to win, he wasn't the greatest in peoples minds. His in the conversation with Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, but his not the greatest. Kobe Bryant right now, is at the down slope of his career. He has 2 or 3 more prime years, and then it's that time were you hold on too long. Jordan originally retired at the age of 35, the time when most are in their twilight, but MJ was arguably still the best in the world, and proved it by winning titles. Kobe, if his to be in the conversation with MJ has to win. And win and win and win and win, and not only win, but beat Lebron James, beat the Celtics with KG and Pierce, beat the Magic with Superman, beat everyone put in his way, because the only way he can even be looked at MJ's level is by stepping up, and showing that will to win. He does not have to be at his physical best, in fact when calling our GOATs, we don't look for that, it seems people look for who can do it for a long period of time and who can do it even when their knees give out, and they should be bed ridden with the flu and when they are against someone younger and more physically dominating than them. I say this, if Kobe wins 3 more titles, and beats LeBron for at least the last one, and retires, we'll look at it as Muhammad beating Foreman, and Kobe goes out the GOAT. If Kobe loses to Lebron, we'll look at it as Magic losing to MJ, and the passing of the torch and Kobe goes with West, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and all the others in that argument over second best.
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My point was, that Jordan was a special case. A RARE case in any sport. In our lifetime we havent seen it in baseball, or football. The only other sport WE'VE seen it in, is golf with Tiger Woods. At this point in Jordans career, it was already known that he was the greatest. In a sport with such a long history (like any of out major sports), for someone to be truly recognized as the greatest (with little to no debate about it), they will have to be the clear cut greatest while they are still in the prime of their career. They cant be fighting for their place in history towards the end of their careers. The reason Jordan is the greatest still, is because we ALL knew he was the best ever far before his career was over. The reason we know Tiger will go down as the greatest golfer ever, is because its already evident far before his career is over. There havent been any other athletes in US sports that you can say that about in our lifetime so far. Even Ali did not have that status DURING his career.
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Lets just say this, the marking behind Jordan was that we called him the greatest without him proving it. Many basketball insiders were deferring to other players. If our lasting memory of Jordan was this
Jordan doesn't go out the GOAT, we don't have two 3 peats to talk about and all is what ifs. BUT Jordan did comeback, and it's leaving the game like this
It's picture perfect, we get everyone saying his the greatest of all time and you can't argue it because it's perfect.
The reason Michael was called the greatest because we knew he can win titles at will, we knew that barring a horrible knee injury, he'd get more titles than Magic, Bird and everyone else, you can argue that minus the baseball deal he'd have almost as many as Bill Russell and we can live with that argument, so we called Jordan the greatest. What cemented his legacy was the 1995-1996 season. 72 wins, breaking the Laker's record, and winning the NBA title for the 4th time. That's when it became clear Michael Jordan was the best player to ever play. Before that, he was the best of the era, one of the greatest, but not the greatest, but in 1996, that was the proof people needed, MJ is the GOAT. He was 33 years old at that time.
Kobe is 30 now, and no one has seen a player like him since Jordan. His only problem, he followed Jordan, we even have video of a young Kobe vs. Jordan. LMAO at Shaq saving Kobe from a huge embarrassment with the goal tend.
http://www.youtube.com/v/HvJywRV9P0w&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b
So it's harder to say Kobe>Jordan. But like Ali, Kobe will have to prove it. But as I said, he win 3 more titles, beat Lebron and retires on top, he'll prove something. IF Kobe wins 2 more titles, but then loses to Lebron, people will say the torch is passed, and Kobe's role will be great player that Lebron beat for his legacy, and Kobe goes in with Magic, West, Russell, Wilt and all the other over who is second best.
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So I was listening to AM 570 (official Laker station, so NIK dont call them haters lol) earlier tonight, and they were going over the greatest players of all time. They read a top ten published by (cant remember who exactly), that gave the top 1,000 NBA players all time. Jordan was number 1, of course. Kareem number 2, cant remember everyone else on the list. But Duncan was 8, Shaq was 9.....and Kobe was....well, lets just say, not in the top 10. I believe he was at 13. Not much argument against that coming from the Laker station lol. In fact, it seems like most of the top 10 lists out there (you gotta be careful cus some are just random idiots giving their opinion) dont have Kobe in the top 10 all time. Out of active players, only Duncan and Shaq are regulars in most of the top ten lists out there. Now Im not saying Kobe isnt a top 10 player, when its all said and done I think he will be. Just interesting that it seems most people dont think he is as of now. And we have people on here saying he's better then Jordan lol. Good shit guys, keep the comedy rolling...
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KLAC is a Laker station, but they're known to hire Laker haters to balance it out and make sure peeps don't see it as a homer station...if u listen, u know this. not saying the list was a hater list, but you cant put someone on top of a list before their career is over, regardless. Jordan, as of now, is the GOAT CAREERWISE...but as far as skill and talent goes, theres nothing Jordan coulda done that Kobe cant...end of story...PeACe
Shallow:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry NIK but that's where you're wrong. Jordan had the skill and talent to keep ugly white girls' mouths shut.
PLANT:
Jordan is the man, straight up. And everyone knows if he didnt retire he would have 8-9 rings plus more scoring titles. His retirement kinda fucked with his acheivements, even tho dude has more records than anyone , anways...
ABN:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on June 17, 2009, 09:04:21 AM ---Tim Legler has said if Jordan never took that break he would have won 8 with the Bulls.
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that´s probably true and had he won 8 rings there wouldn´t have been much of an argument. but it´s hard to say who´s the best, but there´s no room for discussion when you talk about who´s had the biggest impact on every aspect of the game.... Kobe wiill NEVER have the same iconic status as Mike.
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