What happened to the original Makaveli tracklist?

[notrax]

Hey, I'm curious WHO changed the original tracklist of Makaveli album (the one with "Friendz" etc...)? Was it 2Pac? If not, WHEN was it done? Why somebody did it?
I remember I read somewhere that shortly before 2Pac's death, he and Suge were bumpin' the album riding through L.A. (?) - it is interesting if they were listening to THE ORIGINAL Makaveli with Watch Ya Mouth etc., or the one we all know very well?

Many questions, maybe hard to answer, but it'd be great to find out something about it...

[sweetdudejim]

So its possible that even this early after Pacs death Suge fucked up his artistic vison? Wow, how pathetic.

[OG Hack Wilson]

how can u guys complain about perfection?  the cd was perfect

[notrax]

how can u guys complain about perfection?  the cd was perfect

I'm not complaining at all. I just would like to know...   

[Michael]

So its possible that even this early after Pacs death Suge fucked up his artistic vison? Wow, how pathetic.

well it was bein fucked with before he died as well.

Look at the Thug Life album. 10 tracks from like 18 or summit.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

It changed before he died (not after), though Pac knew.  As stated in some of Pac's interviews, he intended it to be a gritty album without any big promotion (hence the rather plain album booklet and inserts) intended to be an underground-type of project that would feel at home at swap meets and mom-and-pop stores.

It's not clear whose idea it was to start changing the album (though more than likely it was Suge's), but the overall intention of the album ended up being a full-blown release with the proper promotion, probably because Suge knew the potential but wanted it to move as many units as possible; not that Pac didn't want it to sell, but he wanted to see if it would put up big numbers even without all sorts of promotion to prove his worth, though Suge was all about maximizing profit, hence tracks being replaced and Toss It Up (a non-Makaveli session track) being included with a video being filmed as a result.  Suge figured that kind of song would be a good club hit to generate buzz (especially since much of the Makaveli album in all of its forms from conception to release wasn't very mainstream), plus the later recorded second verse included a couple jabs at Dre which fit with the stuff that they were saying about him around that time anyway.

[sweetdudejim]

Hmm, thats all really interesting...I'm not as much of a Pac fanatic as many, I'm more into Dre and Snoop, but I do still have a few comments/questions.

-So was "Toss It Up" originally produced by Dre and then given to Blackstreet (for "No Diggity")? And did Dre take it back from Tupac when he left or did Tupac/Suge discard Dre's version when he peaced out?

-Was "To Live & Die In L.A." originally supposed to be on the album either? It doesn't fit the vibe quite as much either, as it was more of a "commercial" type track.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

-So was "Toss It Up" originally produced by Dre and then given to Blackstreet (for "No Diggity")? And did Dre take it back from Tupac when he left or did Tupac/Suge discard Dre's version when he peaced out?

That beat was a Dre production that he did while on Death Row, though both Dre and Death Row had access to it, which is why it ended up being used on the original version of Toss It Up (though it's not sure at what point that happened) and why it ended up being used for BLACKstreet's No Diggity.  Release dates aside, it's not sure exactly what happened at what moment, so we can't say who in what camp acted first with the songs.  It is theorized that Toss It Up was recorded over the same beat, then No Diggity came out, then Pac re-visited the track and added in the second verse dissing Dre along with the outro that took shots at Teddy Riley.  They ended up remixing it to what ended up being released, probably because they didn't want to have the exact same beat, as that would be cheesy.

-Was "To Live & Die In L.A." originally supposed to be on the album either? It doesn't fit the vibe quite as much either, as it was more of a "commercial" type track.

It has been on all of the (released) proposed tracklists, so I would say yes.

[Blasphemy]

So its possible that even this early after Pacs death Suge fucked up his artistic vison? Wow, how pathetic.

well it was bein fucked with before he died as well.

Look at the Thug Life album. 10 tracks from like 18 or summit.

THUG LIFE album wasn't censored by Suge it was because of Interscope. The original was more of a Gangsta Rap type of album, as such they made him change it to what is currently released.

[sweetdudejim]

What part does he make fun of Teddy Riley? Ive listened to the song many times, and never heard it?

[JG]

Q: Would Pac have released this album should he not have passed?

[Jimmy H.]

The album would have been changed regardless of if he died or not. "Artistic vision" is a great thing to romanticize about but unless you're making your art on your own dollar, the people who pay to make the records will always have final say. I'm pretty sure that "Makaveli", much like Big's "Life After Death" was already ready to go when Pac died.

What part does he make fun of Teddy Riley? Ive listened to the song many times, and never heard it?

  If you have the Greatest Hits version, I don't think it's on there. At the end, he says "Yeah, we took your beat because you weren't rocking it right. How can some non-playas do a song about tossing it up" or something like that. Death Row originally used the "No Diggity" beat that Dre sold to Teddy Riley. I guess for legal reasons, they had to change it but the outro is still on there.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

What part does he make fun of Teddy Riley? Ive listened to the song many times, and never heard it?

That part isn't very clear on the regular version of Toss It Up, though it's a bit clearer on the album version from the Toss It Up import single and also the version from the Makaveli DualDisc album.  It's nothing crazy, his name is mentioned in the outro.  He says something like, "Teddy Riley?  WHO!?!" between when he disses Lil Kim and Puffy.

Q: Would Pac have released this album should he not have passed?

Yes, it was his intention to.  He says so in his last VIBE interview, which can be heard on The Last Interview CD, which was bundled with the Thug Immortal VHS tape but included as one long audio track on the Thug Immortal DVD.

[OG Hack Wilson]

Hmm, thats all really interesting...I'm not as much of a Pac fanatic as many, I'm more into Dre and Snoop, but I do still have a few comments/questions.

-So was "Toss It Up" originally produced by Dre and then given to Blackstreet (for "No Diggity")? And did Dre take it back from Tupac when he left or did Tupac/Suge discard Dre's version when he peaced out?

-Was "To Live & Die In L.A." originally supposed to be on the album either? It doesn't fit the vibe quite as much either, as it was more of a "commercial" type track.

dre and snoop dont compare to MAkaveli the Don.  he's much better than those two...and he doesnt need ghostwriters haha.

to live and die in LA was most def planned for the album.  as were bomb first, hail mary against all odds and me and my girlfriend.  probably most of it was expected to come out

[sweetdudejim]

dre and snoop dont compare to MAkaveli the Don.  he's much better than those two...and he doesnt need ghostwriters haha.[/

Hmm, thats all really interesting...I'm not as much of a Pac fanatic as many, I'm more into Dre and Snoop, but I do still have a few comments/questions.

-So was "Toss It Up" originally produced by Dre and then given to Blackstreet (for "No Diggity")? And did Dre take it back from Tupac when he left or did Tupac/Suge discard Dre's version when he peaced out?

-Was "To Live & Die In L.A." originally supposed to be on the album either? It doesn't fit the vibe quite as much either, as it was more of a "commercial" type track.

dre and snoop dont compare to MAkaveli the Don.  he's much better than those two...and he doesnt need ghostwriters haha.

to live and die in LA was most def planned for the album.  as were bomb first, hail mary against all odds and me and my girlfriend.  probably most of it was expected to come out

[/quote]No offense, but to say Dre doesn't compare is ridiculous. He has reinvented the game at least 3 times (N.W.A, Chronic, 2001) and unleashed 3 of the biggest artists (Snoop, Eminem, 50). And HE was actually the person putting together the SONGS and the MUSIC. Not just going into the booth and making fun of people like Tupac seemed to do a lot, although this less savory aspect of his life has been tried to be whitewashed over in many people's eyes, through posthumous albums that try to frame him as this great man.

Don't get me wrong, Tupac is a great artist, but he never put out an album as good as Doggystyle or 2001. No doubt, Me Against The World, All Eyez On Me, and Makaveli were all great albums, but track for track I feel Dre and Snoop have put together some better album, and although maybe he beats Snoop out as an "artist" he comes nowhere near Dre.