what's more important to u, a great rapper or "great musc"?

[Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)]

let's b real here
....there's really nothin in between. either u a great rapper/lyricist or....  a simplistic and "swaggtastic" charisma-rapper with "presence", that knows how to create songs..

lyricists does generally not know how to create "songs". their area - is straight lyrics, on hardcore beats.. raw lyrics. mixtapes and all that type of shit.. can you imagine Chino XL or GZA/Genius on a Neptunes or Timbaland-production?  


so whats ur flavor? "good music", that is easy to digest...

or
good ol' rap.. lyrics

or do u combine both in ur gumbopot, like me? a lil' bit of both..

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

I disagree with everything you are saying. What defines a great rapper is the greatness of the music they have released. As far as what a lyricist is, if you can't make good songs then you aren't a good lyricist. Don't forget the term "lyric" is in lyricist. Lyrics = the words to a song. Why do so many people forget about the musical aspect when they talk about what a lyricist is?

[Chamillitary Click]

Depends on my mood.

Sometimes I'll want to listen to great music, with a beat that fits the words being spit, sometimes I just want to hear freestyles  & sometimes I just want to kick back and listen to a Lil' Wayne song that's all laid back & swaggerful.

[Portugoal]

A great rapper can make great music, but great music can't make a rapper great. You need both in order to have a great song. This is why rappers like Charles Hamilton, T.I., Chamillionaire, Nick Cannon and Juelz Santana will never make a great song.

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

I like a little bit of in between, I like when it's real lyrics or real substance, but it sounds good.  Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.

But once in awhile they do pump one out, and that's the kinda song that stays on my ipod for a long time.

For instance, Papoose, not listening to him, but a small compromise in lyrical ability for a better subject content and overall artistry for making songs gives you Joell Ortiz, which easily gets 20x more spins from me.

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

hard to say,cause take leonard roberts for instance,i think he succs as a rapper but he doesn't fucc up beats he's on,i can hear his songs if somebody is playing em and not be offended most of the time, and same thing with group home,i think they first album is dope as fucc,but overall the lyrics was shitty but i still dug it and wouldn't want to hear no other group over those beats, guess i'll lean toward great music yell

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.

What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.

What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?

Do you want to discuss Rick Ross?  Speedin is a good song.  Is it lyrical?  No.

Do you want to discuss 50 Cent?  In Da Club is a good song.  Is it lyrical?  No.

Do you want to discuss TI?  Asap is a good song.  Is it lyrical?  No.


Do you see my definition now?  To me lyricism is punchlines and storylines.  Something that a person like Joe Budden excels at.  But on the other hand, his delivery can be stale and uninspiring, which is another big part of a good song.

On the other hand, Method Man's punchlines and storylines may not be as strong, but his delivery creates such an energy on a track that you don't notice the shortcoming.

Remember, lyrics (writing) is only one part of a song.  You still have other elements like bring the lyrics to life with good charismatic vocals, a good beat selection, and good mixing of the over-all song.

[Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)]

Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.

What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?

song-creation doesn't have ANYTHING to do wit the artists lyrical abilities... you're confused, homie.. very, very confused.. some of the worst artists in the world, are the best lyricists..

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

I could make some of the dopest lyrics of all time, but if I came out spitting it uninspired sounding offbeat and shit, it's gonna be a whack song. 

The hook is a big part of a good song.  So if I make a really dope hook am I a great lyricist?  No.  The lyrics could be just about anything (as noted in most mainstream song) and if I can create a dope melody for it, it's gonna sound decent.  THAT is being a good artist/rapper. 

That's why I hate when ppl whine about seeing these pop and rnb peeps showing up on their fav rappers album.  When in fact they gonna do a better job than the rapper would have, and make it a better song.  Which is what we all want.  2Pac knew this shit, that's why he had all them RnB dudes on his hooks. 

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.

What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?

Do you want to discuss Rick Ross?  Speedin is a good song.  Is it lyrical?  No.

Do you want to discuss 50 Cent?  In Da Club is a good song.  Is it lyrical?  No.

Do you want to discuss TI?  Asap is a good song.  Is it lyrical?  No.


Do you see my definition now?  To me lyricism is punchlines and storylines.  Something that a person like Joe Budden excels at.  But on the other hand, his delivery can be stale and uninspiring, which is another big part of a good song.

On the other hand, Method Man's punchlines and storylines may not be as strong, but his delivery creates such an energy on a track that you don't notice the shortcoming.

Remember, lyrics (writing) is only one part of a song.  You still have other elements like bring the lyrics to life with good charismatic vocals, a good beat selection, and good mixing of the over-all song.

I would have to disagree with you that those are all good songs. And In Da Club is exactly what it is...a good party song. There's a pretty obvious difference between that and oh say this:



I have said this time and time again. Punchlines don't make something lyrical. Punchlines are nothing more than jokes told through rhyme. Hell, punchlines don't even really exist outside of rap, so how can you use that to define what is lyrical when rap is only one out of many music genres which rely on lyrics?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lyrical

Punchlines CAN contribute to something being lyrical. But its not based on the punchlines themselves but whether they actually contribute to the AFFECT of the song. IE a random freestyle that says nothing is not lyrical.

As far as Budden vs. Meth, I guess you could argue either way since both have released meaningful music. But you seem to be going about this lyricist thing the wrong way. Just wanted to clear that up.

[OG Hack Wilson]

musc?  where's the I?

[SCREWFACE]

This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.

people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'

[stillinrehab]

Both. I definitely want great music and it is convenient if it comes from the same source That's why I don't like how much of mainstream is based off making your album around one dope single as opposed to an album full of great singles!

[Paul]

This is why rappers like Charles Hamilton, T.I., Chamillionaire, Nick Cannon and Juelz Santana will never make a great song.

In your opinion.