Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Why would someone vote against Prop 23?
Javier:
What I find really fucking hilarious is that it wasn't that long ago where environmental concerns were seen as anti establishment ideas, now it clear isn't. Apparently, I'm a part of this huge monster that is trying to fuck people over and get rich off. Your "outsider" bullshit doesn't contribute nothing. How about people work on disproving all of these peer reviewed work that deals with environmental issues, until then there is no discussion.
virtuoso:
That is why I used the term naivety, you are right, the environmentalist movement is big, many genuine concerns, but it's being steered.
I remember when environmentalists were concerned about GM foods, rightly so to, but then along came the cries of the sky is falling save the earth from carbon emissions and suddenly the majority switched completely off this issue.
I illustrated the point before, false arguments are used to nullify, like "oh the oil corporations love the sound of your language" when they LOVE "your" language for the very point I have mentioned above.
I never said that environmentalists intentionally want to hurt themselves or others or intentionally collude, but merely that people are being swept along by the latest craze and that, if it wasn't in the interests of the special interests, then there would be no funding for these things, they would register, sure as outrage, but muted outrage, ignored by the media and the mainstream as a whole.
Russell Bell:
--- Quote from: virtuoso on November 04, 2010, 02:34:25 PM ---
That is why I used the term naivety, you are right, the environmentalist movement is big, many genuine concerns, but it's being steered.
I remember when environmentalists were concerned about GM foods, rightly so to, but then along came the cries of the sky is falling save the earth from carbon emissions and suddenly the majority switched completely off this issue.
I illustrated the point before, false arguments are used to nullify, like "oh the oil corporations love the sound of your language" when they LOVE "your" language for the very point I have mentioned above.
I never said that environmentalists intentionally want to hurt themselves or others or intentionally collude, but merely that people are being swept along by the latest craze and that, if it wasn't in the interests of the special interests, then there would be no funding for these things, they would register, sure as outrage, but muted outrage, ignored by the media and the mainstream as a whole.
--- End quote ---
I agree that they are being steered. I mean, look at how much the state of CA can make from smog checks? Yes, they are necessary to a point. But they have a built in tax of 8.25 for each one that goes directly to the state!! One shouldn't forget environmentalism has been turned into a business, and just like every other business, the pursuit of money clouds original intentions.
Russell Bell:
--- Quote from: Javier on November 04, 2010, 10:41:53 AM ---I'm an environmentalist. You want to take a look at added cost to business, well I'm taking a look at added cost to the environment. It's much more severe in the long run. The LAO couldn't even accurate report the pros and cons to Prop 23, they're just a bunch of vague beliefs for both sides.
--- End quote ---
Ok. I feel you that prop 23 does have a kind of "who knows" factor.....to some extent. It is common sense that if a businesses costs go up, especially if they aren't getting a return from their investments, will have less money. USUALLY....less money = less hiring/more firing. I get that your area of the state is a terrible place for smog, but so is mine (the Central Valley). I just don't understand the timing of this bill I guess. It is so incredibly bad. It really reeks of that "elitism" that many complain about when talking about gov't, usually environmentalist-only dem's or business-only minded repubs. 12% unemployment means a whole hell of a lot more (and should to everyone who has family who are looking 4 jobs or are doing it themselves) than a few more carcinogens in the air.
virtuoso:
Real unemployment levels are above 20% by the way, as horrifying as 12% is, it's nowhere near the full picture.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version