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The official The Dark Knight Rises thread...
DeeezNuuuts83:
--- Quote from: Shallow on May 04, 2012, 01:21:49 PM ---I wasn't trying to describe the true Two Face and comparing him to Nolan's Two Face. I was simply pointing out the type of Two face that I like and would like to have seen on screen, and pointing out all the things about Nolan's Two Face that I didn't like. It's just an opinion on what I felt about the film.
As for the Wayne Tech guy, if anything he didn't deduce shit, Lucius Fox gave away the identity of Batman as Bruce when Lucius jumped to the conclusion tat this guy thinks it's Wayne. All the employee said was that he found out the Tumbler is one of the projects worked on by Wayne Tech. My complaint isn't bas much about the guy being able to figure it out as it is about Fox acting so stupid about it. Lucius Fox is much more clever. I don't mean Lucius in the comics or Lucius as I envision him, but the actual Lucius Fox from the film. He wouldn't make such a stupid mistake. And if he did it should be presented as such with in the film; that he really fucked up. Now if said employee was Edward Nigma then perhaps that'd be acceptable.
--- End quote ---
Okay cool, I get what you meant about your Two-Face discussions.
But if anything, I get what you mean, now that I re-watch the scene between Lucius and Coleman Reese (who, in the wake of your ironic mention of Edward Nigma, sometimes dubbed "Mr. E/Mystery," was interestingly called "Mr. Reese/Mysteries" by Lucius as some people have noticed), he didn't say anything about Bruce Wayne being Batman while it was indeed Lucius who said that Reese was alleging that his "client" (Bruce) was secretly a vigilante, but that doesn't mean that it was something the Reese didn't already think of.
You bring up a good point about that scenario, but I do still think that Reese knew even though he did not say Bruce = Batman (or anything close to it) specifically while Lucius did. His character was first introduced during the meeting between Lucius and Lau (the Chinese guy) when Bruce was sleeping in his seat, and Reese approached Lucius about the finances being a bit chaotic with how the money is spent (did he call it a trust account?), while Lucius told him to not worry about it but just to make sure that it is replenished, which he said he had already done as Lucius started to walk away. It would be hard to figure out that Reese, an accountant who obviously couldn't have been a total moron to have made his way to a company like Wayne Tech to oversee their finances, couldn't put two and two together... noticing that cash is burning at an alarming rate with no knowledge of what it went toward, Bruce Wayne being passed out (obviously due to a long night), finding the blueprints for the Tumbler (clearly Batman's vehicle) having been originally developed by Lucius/Wayne Tech (again owned by Bruce Wayne, who in Batman Begins when he returned to Gotham took a position within the "Applied Sciences" department, which Reese said "disappeared overnight" while finding the Tumbler information associated with it), etc.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: DeeezNuuuts83 on May 04, 2012, 04:28:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on May 04, 2012, 01:21:49 PM ---I wasn't trying to describe the true Two Face and comparing him to Nolan's Two Face. I was simply pointing out the type of Two face that I like and would like to have seen on screen, and pointing out all the things about Nolan's Two Face that I didn't like. It's just an opinion on what I felt about the film.
As for the Wayne Tech guy, if anything he didn't deduce shit, Lucius Fox gave away the identity of Batman as Bruce when Lucius jumped to the conclusion tat this guy thinks it's Wayne. All the employee said was that he found out the Tumbler is one of the projects worked on by Wayne Tech. My complaint isn't bas much about the guy being able to figure it out as it is about Fox acting so stupid about it. Lucius Fox is much more clever. I don't mean Lucius in the comics or Lucius as I envision him, but the actual Lucius Fox from the film. He wouldn't make such a stupid mistake. And if he did it should be presented as such with in the film; that he really fucked up. Now if said employee was Edward Nigma then perhaps that'd be acceptable.
--- End quote ---
Okay cool, I get what you meant about your Two-Face discussions.
But if anything, I get what you mean, now that I re-watch the scene between Lucius and Coleman Reese (who, in the wake of your ironic mention of Edward Nigma, sometimes dubbed "Mr. E/Mystery," was interestingly called "Mr. Reese/Mysteries" by Lucius as some people have noticed), he didn't say anything about Bruce Wayne being Batman while it was indeed Lucius who said that Reese was alleging that his "client" (Bruce) was secretly a vigilante, but that doesn't mean that it was something the Reese didn't already think of.
You bring up a good point about that scenario, but I do still think that Reese knew even though he did not say Bruce = Batman (or anything close to it) specifically while Lucius did. His character was first introduced during the meeting between Lucius and Lau (the Chinese guy) when Bruce was sleeping in his seat, and Reese approached Lucius about the finances being a bit chaotic with how the money is spent (did he call it a trust account?), while Lucius told him to not worry about it but just to make sure that it is replenished, which he said he had already done as Lucius started to walk away. It would be hard to figure out that Reese, an accountant who obviously couldn't have been a total moron to have made his way to a company like Wayne Tech to oversee their finances, couldn't put two and two together... noticing that cash is burning at an alarming rate with no knowledge of what it went toward, Bruce Wayne being passed out (obviously due to a long night), finding the blueprints for the Tumbler (clearly Batman's vehicle) having been originally developed by Lucius/Wayne Tech (again owned by Bruce Wayne, who in Batman Begins when he returned to Gotham took a position within the "Applied Sciences" department, which Reese said "disappeared overnight" while finding the Tumbler information associated with it), etc.
--- End quote ---
Obviously the idea of the film was that the guy was thinking it was Bruce. Still a big jump in logic for anyone to connect a passed out billionaire playboy to having the physical ability to the Batman. The logical deductive reasoning would make someone think Fox somehow got Bruce to basically hand him the company and run it, thus explaining the huge increases in the Science department. And after taking it over Fox is the one that started a secret Batman project using all of these Wayne Tech gadgets. There is more than enough evidence to connect Batman to Wayne Tech, but nothing to make anyone think Bruce Wayne is even capable of being Batman.
Nolan tries his best to set his Gotham in the real world. Imagine in the real world there was a real life crime fighter with all these super gadgets and someone connected the hero's car to Apple. Would you think that the hero is working for the guy currently running the company or that Lisa Brennan-Jobs is dressing up in a costume and fighting crime?
The real world would leak the fact that Apple created the guys car and then Apple would release a statement saying they created several prototypes sold to weapons companies employed by the military and then the search for the hero would start with a discharged higher up in the military who ran off with one of the cars and uses it to fight crime. It just makes no sense to me to assume that the heir to company that created the car is the guy in the suit.
Now if you were to find reports of Bruce Wayne being arrested in Tibet for assaulting a group of seven men after being caught trying to steal Wayne Tech merchandise then you have grounds to believe there is more to Bruce Wayne than meets the eye. The accountant could have easily found an expense hidden in the books paid out to a bunch of jails over the world and digging deep the accountant could see that there were several cases where Bruce had been arrested for fighting and defeating 5 to 6 men at a time. But the film didn't go that route.
DeeezNuuuts83:
But they didn't have to go that route. I get the Apple analogy, but that doesn't apply here -- Bruce is a guy who is pretty fit. Sure, Reese hasn't seem him without his shirt or fighting ten guys at once, but it's obvious that Bruce is neither twiggy for flabby, and with his size and frame, he could fit the description.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: DeeezNuuuts83 on May 04, 2012, 06:53:08 PM ---But they didn't have to go that route. I get the Apple analogy, but that doesn't apply here -- Bruce is a guy who is pretty fit. Sure, Reese hasn't seem him without his shirt or fighting ten guys at once, but it's obvious that Bruce is neither twiggy for flabby, and with his size and frame, he could fit the description.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but being fit and being able to fight ten guys at once are two completely different things. Basic common sense would lead someone to places of experienced combat. We would automatically assume Government conspiracy or rogue military commando.
For one reason more than any a government run super hero is really the only way to assume it. This isn't the 1930s. In modern America what happened in Gotham in both films would be a federal matter. There is no city run mental asylum and any multi-national organized crime rings would be FBI as well as Gotham PD, and the idea that there is a Batman would make the government want to know who the Batman is. And there's no fucking way the US Government couldn't track Batman in a matter of days.
Let's be serious here; no intelligent human being faced with the evidence presented would assume that any celebrity or heir was the Batman before they assumed it was a government related project. The first answer to the Tumbler is that Wayne Tech sold it to the military and someone with in the government is Batman. The second is Wayne Tech is running the Batman project on it's own. It is such a leap to assume it's Bruce, given what is known about Bruce.
I fully understand the ideas of teasing Bruce is Batman in certain situations, but the entire Mr Reese part of the plot was pointless and unrealistic with in the world.
It was plain and simple bad writing.
DeeezNuuuts83:
A couple of new TV spots have been played and are also on YouTube.
Both have footage already seen, but have a few new things. One has Bruce Wayne doing push-ups (like in the teaser) and approaching Lucius Fox asking him to get him "back in the game" while showcasing the Batwing (or whatever they're calling it) a bit more. The second one has more stuff of Catwoman, though at the end, it shows Bruce Wayne talking to the valet who says, "Your wife said that you were taking a cab home," and Bruce replies, "My wife!?!" while cutting to Selina Kyle driving away in Bruce's Lamborghini Aventador.
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