It's May 16, 2024, 09:32:55 AM
I've got a question since people are on a respectfull religious tip in this post.There is no scientific fact that a God exists. There is no concrete proof that a superior being is out there. That means, that you have to have Faith that your particular God is real. What makes one belief better or more valid than another belief?
Quote from: Engel-Rock on January 10, 2003, 02:58:43 AMI've got a question since people are on a respectfull religious tip in this post.There is no scientific fact that a God exists. There is no concrete proof that a superior being is out there. That means, that you have to have Faith that your particular God is real. What makes one belief better or more valid than another belief? how do you belive the world started existing?
Quote from: Ant on January 09, 2003, 07:04:32 PMIf he is all powerful, when is his power exercised?Or rather... are there rules for when God/Allah can step in and "moderate"First of all. Is Trauma creating his own theology, or is his knowledge a product of the Latter Day Saints? I am speaking as a Muslim and from what I have been taught at this point in my Islamic studies. Ant, to answer your question. When is Allah's power exercised?- At every moment, of every day. There is nothing that is done without the will of Allah.
If he is all powerful, when is his power exercised?Or rather... are there rules for when God/Allah can step in and "moderate"
Quote from: Infinite Ibrahim Abdul Hamid on January 10, 2003, 02:23:05 AMQuote from: Ant on January 09, 2003, 07:04:32 PMIf he is all powerful, when is his power exercised?Or rather... are there rules for when God/Allah can step in and "moderate"First of all. Is Trauma creating his own theology, or is his knowledge a product of the Latter Day Saints? I am speaking as a Muslim and from what I have been taught at this point in my Islamic studies. Ant, to answer your question. When is Allah's power exercised?- At every moment, of every day. There is nothing that is done without the will of Allah.So according to Islam, God is all knowing, and all powerful, and he exerts his will at all moments of every day.In that case then all good and evil, suffering and happiness, etc. are the products of the will of Allah. If nothing is done without the will of Allah then Allah is indeed a cruel being. But what a further contradiction for the Qu'ran that condescends the disbeleivers and wrong doers, but states that everything is done through the will of Allah. Let's add in further that God is omniscient. An omniscient God who created the world new evil would one day exist. Omniscient implies you know all, you know now and the future. If God was omniscient why create a world of evil? Let's add in further now that he is omnipotent. These together say that God first "knows" (omniscience) how to create a perfect world and has the ability (omnipotence) to create a perfect world, but he didn't.I posted this arguement before but it was ignored. If such is that case God is either 1)cruel and/or evil 2) not omnipotent 3) not omniscient)For if he was omnipotent and omniscient the world would not be imperfect unless he willed to be such. Since the world is imperfect the evil in the world is a product of Allah (as you said all things come from the will of Allah), therefore unless God wills evil your assumptions of omnipotence and omniscience are wrong.But since Allah deeded the Qu'ran to be perfect scripture he again contradicted himself. He claims to be omniscient, omnipotent, and also all good. But he created evil. Therefore if the Qu'ran was written by God it is imperfect and a likely conclusion would be the God is not omniscient or omnipotent. The other possibility is that the Qu'ran was not written by God.
Then all things don't come from the will of God as infinite said?
Okay, a lot was touched on since I last entered the thread. First, I have a correction to make. It was not the angel Gabriel but the angel Iblis who refused to bow at Allah's command and prostrate before Adam. And it was the angel Gabriel that was the most favored of all angels for he is the one that provided the media through which Allah gave his devine message, Al-Qu'ran, to the prophet Muhammad ibn Abdullah (salla alayhi wa salaam).Other than what I have noted above, brother I-Bo expressed the Muslim position wonderfully, and he answered all of your questions better than I would have myself. My answers are consistent with his.
Unfortunately Maestro contradicted himself in that small paragraph he wrote that you agreed with completely.He told us that the angels were first created, given no free will, and then Iblis revolted. Well if Iblis wasn't given free will how did he revolt? If God is omnipotent and omniscient and meant to create a angel with "no free will" he would have. How did this being who was less powerful than God suddenly gain a free will, which he wasn't given? Again we are return to my previous conclusions: Either god is not omnipotent and omniscient so that when he created the angels he made a mistake. Or else God is omnipotent and omniscient so that when he created Iblis who eventually revolted he knowingly created evil.Either god created evil or god is not omnipotent and omniscient.