Jordan never took tough shots the way Kobe does...

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

I was just noticing today watching some old Jordon footage how easy it was for Jordon to get his shots.  Basically at any moment of any game Jordon could just pull up and shoot a jumper.  Not to mention there was nothing Jordon couldn't do on a basketball court, but his bread and butter was the pull-up jumper.  Something about Jordon's strength and body control just made him able to always get jumper after jumper.

Kobe on the other hand will hit a fadeaway three pointer falling out of bounds with a double team on him shooting over 4 hands.  He often takes 3's way beyond the arc.  The degree of difficulty he has to take to score the amount of points he does is really unbelievable.

This isn't a diss on Kobe it's actually incredible that he can hit the shots that he does.  But Jordon was able to do it with a much lower degree of difficulty.

[Chamillitary Click]

NIK, they're out of the playoffs. They aren't good. Kobe choked. Log out of the boy's account & shut the fuck up.

Brian hasn't made a sports post in his life outside of the Royals & Chiefs. Now randomly at one in the morning, he's just breaking down degree of shot difficulty. You're one sad dude.

[7even]

When Jordan lost his athleticism he took turnaround fadeaways as well. He never forced it as much as Kobe does, hence the significantly better FG%. In Kobe's defense, Jordan never really took 3s like that. But maybe Kobe shouldn't either.. or at least less.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

When Jordan lost his athleticism he took turnaround fadeaways as well. He never forced it as much as Kobe does, hence the significantly better FG%. In Kobe's defense, Jordan never really took 3s like that. But maybe Kobe shouldn't either.. or at least less.

right.. but to me it seems that if Kobe didn't force the issue and just let the game come to him the way Jordan did.. then Kobe would barely average 20 a game.  Seems like Kobe has to take those tough shots consistently.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I think it's a lot of factors, partially with Jordan (not Jordon, get it right) just being a more gifted basketball player along with the NBA just being different.

Jordan made shots that wouldn't have been made by a lot of other basketball players.  Part of it was how he handled the ball (as he switched hands a bit when going in for a lay-up), how he moved (as a lot of people got faked out) and how he controlled his opponents' movement (like when he made the game-winning shot, I think against the Cavs).  The last one is definitely something that Kobe doesn't really do, as Jordan has mentioned in videos what he would do, like how he would use his other hand to nudge his opponent in whatever direction he wanted them to go, which partially helped him be open more often to make the shot.  Additionally, he had a really good jumping ability.

When I said that the NBA is different now, a lot of players are physically bigger than they were when Michael Jordan was around.  A lot of the guys who would try to defend Jordan were at least similar in size, especially when matched up against their biggest rivals at the time.  Kobe isn't much different than Jordan in terms of their size, but a lot of his rivals are bigger, like LeBron.

In the end, Jordan was just more confident in himself.  He could dunk on people more easily, like where he dunked on a guy at an away game, then got heckled by someone courtside who told him to "dunk on someone [his] own size," then immediately afterward he dunked on a bigger guy and walked by the same person to ask him in response, "Was he big enough?"  He was just better at making shots, as I remember a game where in the final seconds at the freethrow line, someone (I think it was Mutumbo) told him to shoot with his eyes closed, so he did and made it.  Additionally, I remember the year he got $36 million, he said that he guaranteed that the Bulls would win the championship before the season even started, and again, they won.  No one says that anymore.

[Sccit]

Jordan had better teammates who made the game much easier for him...also, keep in mind, the rules were a lot different back then. there was no zone defense or defensive three seconds in Jordan's era, making it much easier for players to penetrate the lane... also, due to how great those Bulls teams were as a collective unit, there was no triple-teaming or sagging off of other players to guard Jordan...Kobe is forced to take tough shots usually when his teammates are playin like shit and he has to bail them out. Different circumstances. When it comes down to it, Kobe has wasted many of his prime years on bullshit teams, while Jordan spent his prime on GREAT teams. Tell me of another player who averages 30 points in the playoffs in their 16th season...don't worry, i'll wait. Bottom line, I get what you sayin, but u have to take into account the different situations both players were placed in.

[Sccit]

When Jordan lost his athleticism he took turnaround fadeaways as well. He never forced it as much as Kobe does, hence the significantly better FG%. In Kobe's defense, Jordan never really took 3s like that. But maybe Kobe shouldn't either.. or at least less.

right.. but to me it seems that if Kobe didn't force the issue and just let the game come to him the way Jordan did.. then Kobe would barely average 20 a game.  Seems like Kobe has to take those tough shots consistently.

kobe currently doesn't have the teammates to let the game come to him...when ur second option is gasol and he plays like an 8th option of the bench, then u HAVE to force the issue. much easier to let the game come to u when ur on a great team as opposed to just a good one, ya feel me?

[Mietek23]

Jordan had better teammates who made the game much easier for him...also, keep in mind, the rules were a lot different back then. there was no zone defense or defensive three seconds in Jordan's era, making it much easier for players to penetrate the lane... also, due to how great those Bulls teams were as a collective unit, there was no triple-teaming or sagging off of other players to guard Jordan...Kobe is forced to take tough shots usually when his teammates are playin like shit and he has to bail them out. Different circumstances. When it comes down to it, Kobe has wasted many of his prime years on bullshit teams, while Jordan spent his prime on GREAT teams. Tell me of another player who averages 30 points in the playoffs in their 16th season...don't worry, i'll wait. Bottom line, I get what you sayin, but u have to take into account the different situations both players were placed in.

I know your a big Kobe fan but PLEASE - stop it. Just STOP. MJ didn't had better teamates - he had Scottie Pippen, who I agree was able to get him a lot of easy shots due to his great pasing and playmaking skills. Yes, Kobe don't got a player like Pippen around him therefor he must take tougher shots sometimes but let's make clear one thing - HE'S JOCKING SHOTS WAAAY TO MUCH and he dosen't have the same great shot selection Michael had. That's the main reason, his FG% is lower than Jordan's (43% this season).

As far as other teamates goes - either your blind, or your love for Kobe is so big it blurs your vision of reality. Overall, looking at their careers Kobe Bryant played with better teams and teamates. He had Shaq durning the first 3-peat. Not to mention Glen Rice, Big Shot Rob and a couple of other solid players (Fox, Brian Shaw, Fisher etc.). Michael had Pippen and Horace Grant, who has a solid player - other than that, the rest of the Bulls from 91-93 were decent as best. You wanna tell me Pippen has more values as a player than Shaq? LOL! I don't think so. Switch sides and see what happen. The Shaq and Kobe duo just were too immature to put their differences aside them and just play. If they would done that - Lakers would prolly won 5 rings in a row.

In Kobe's second Championship run, he had 2 of the Top 5 big men in the league right now in Bynum and Gasol. I can agree that they played with no heart and passion in some games but talent wise - they were better players than any big man, that played with Jordan durning his whole career. You seem to forget Michael had dudes like Wennington, Cartwright, Perdue, Longley, Kline etc. not to mention all-stars like Jud Buechler, who were just trash. Yeah, Rodman was good, but only in rebounds and defence - on the other side of the floor, he was useless. So it was Pippen and Jordan again, with additional help from Kukoc who was a good player but he never used all of his potential while playing in the NBA. Kobe on the other hand has not only Gasol and Bynum but Lamar Odom and Artest, who is a decent player although little overrated in terms of defence.

So talent wise - Kobe and the Lakers are better hands down. But Jordan and the Bulls fit better together.


And your wrong again with a statement that Kobe wasted his prime years playing on bullshit teams - statisticwise, you are correct. But numbers don't define player's prime. If so, MJ also wasted his prime years with the Bulls, as he was is his statistic-best in years 87 to 89 and who he played with on those Bulls teams, exept Oakley? Paxon? Dave Corzine? Brad Sellers? Ed Nealy? PLEASE. Kobe prime years were 2007-2010 - Michael was at his best from 1991 to 1993. Both of them were still young, had all the talent, shooting and jumping ability etc. and were mature enough to lead their teams to NBA Finals.

The "No Zone Defense" in Jordan playing years is a myth, as teams like Knicks and Detroit Bad Boys were both using zone defense durning their battles with the Bulls:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/A6_GgXXR4vA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/A6_GgXXR4vA</a>


Also, Michael was getting double and triple teams on a daily basics, specially going on against the Pistons:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5K-qGWkiKvQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/5K-qGWkiKvQ</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NLv2F33snCE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NLv2F33snCE</a>


You seem to make everbody believe that today's NBA is so great and players are so better than in the 90' s that it just looks stupid. And the most ridiculous post of all that I read often here is that MJ would have problems playing in the NBA today. People seems to forgot, that an old, injured and slow Michael Jordan at 40 was playing at an all-star level durning the so called "Kobe Bryant era", running the floor, beating young guys with fresh legs off the dribble and scoring 30 and 40 points against the so-called "elite defenders" of today's NBA.

LOL, what a joke.

[teecee]

When Jordan lost his athleticism he took turnaround fadeaways as well. He never forced it as much as Kobe does, hence the significantly better FG%. In Kobe's defense, Jordan never really took 3s like that. But maybe Kobe shouldn't either.. or at least less.

right.. but to me it seems that if Kobe didn't force the issue and just let the game come to him the way Jordan did.. then Kobe would barely average 20 a game.  Seems like Kobe has to take those tough shots consistently.

kobe currently doesn't have the teammates to let the game come to him...when ur second option is gasol and he plays like an 8th option of the bench, then u HAVE to force the issue. much easier to let the game come to u when ur on a great team as opposed to just a good one, ya feel me?

So having the "best center" in a league devoid of big men doesn't count?

[bouli77]

not big on basketball but how can you take someone who spells Jordan "Jordon" seriously ? on some illiterate shit

[Chamillitary Click]

not big on basketball but how can you take someone who spells Jordan "Jordon" seriously ? on some illiterate shit

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Jordan's second 3peat teammates were better then any of Kobe's championship teammates. I guess the 00-02 team could match up against Jordan's 91-93 team since Shaq was so dominate. But Jordan played alongside 2 hall of famers and a good bench. The year he retired they almost made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. Kobe's 4th and 5th championship were played with no HOFers and Bynum barely played in the 2009 playoffs. Even in 2010, Bynum got only 8.6 points and 6.9 rebounds in the playoffs as a starter. His break out years were in 2011 and 2012.

[Sccit]

Jordan had better teammates who made the game much easier for him...also, keep in mind, the rules were a lot different back then. there was no zone defense or defensive three seconds in Jordan's era, making it much easier for players to penetrate the lane... also, due to how great those Bulls teams were as a collective unit, there was no triple-teaming or sagging off of other players to guard Jordan...Kobe is forced to take tough shots usually when his teammates are playin like shit and he has to bail them out. Different circumstances. When it comes down to it, Kobe has wasted many of his prime years on bullshit teams, while Jordan spent his prime on GREAT teams. Tell me of another player who averages 30 points in the playoffs in their 16th season...don't worry, i'll wait. Bottom line, I get what you sayin, but u have to take into account the different situations both players were placed in.

I know your a big Kobe fan but PLEASE - stop it. Just STOP. MJ didn't had better teamates - he had Scottie Pippen, who I agree was able to get him a lot of easy shots due to his great pasing and playmaking skills. Yes, Kobe don't got a player like Pippen around him therefor he must take tougher shots sometimes but let's make clear one thing - HE'S JOCKING SHOTS WAAAY TO MUCH and he dosen't have the same great shot selection Michael had. That's the main reason, his FG% is lower than Jordan's (43% this season).

As far as other teamates goes - either your blind, or your love for Kobe is so big it blurs your vision of reality. Overall, looking at their careers Kobe Bryant played with better teams and teamates. He had Shaq durning the first 3-peat. Not to mention Glen Rice, Big Shot Rob and a couple of other solid players (Fox, Brian Shaw, Fisher etc.). Michael had Pippen and Horace Grant, who has a solid player - other than that, the rest of the Bulls from 91-93 were decent as best. You wanna tell me Pippen has more values as a player than Shaq? LOL! I don't think so. Switch sides and see what happen. The Shaq and Kobe duo just were too immature to put their differences aside them and just play. If they would done that - Lakers would prolly won 5 rings in a row.

In Kobe's second Championship run, he had 2 of the Top 5 big men in the league right now in Bynum and Gasol. I can agree that they played with no heart and passion in some games but talent wise - they were better players than any big man, that played with Jordan durning his whole career. You seem to forget Michael had dudes like Wennington, Cartwright, Perdue, Longley, Kline etc. not to mention all-stars like Jud Buechler, who were just trash. Yeah, Rodman was good, but only in rebounds and defence - on the other side of the floor, he was useless. So it was Pippen and Jordan again, with additional help from Kukoc who was a good player but he never used all of his potential while playing in the NBA. Kobe on the other hand has not only Gasol and Bynum but Lamar Odom and Artest, who is a decent player although little overrated in terms of defence.

So talent wise - Kobe and the Lakers are better hands down. But Jordan and the Bulls fit better together.


And your wrong again with a statement that Kobe wasted his prime years playing on bullshit teams - statisticwise, you are correct. But numbers don't define player's prime. If so, MJ also wasted his prime years with the Bulls, as he was is his statistic-best in years 87 to 89 and who he played with on those Bulls teams, exept Oakley? Paxon? Dave Corzine? Brad Sellers? Ed Nealy? PLEASE. Kobe prime years were 2007-2010 - Michael was at his best from 1991 to 1993. Both of them were still young, had all the talent, shooting and jumping ability etc. and were mature enough to lead their teams to NBA Finals.

The "No Zone Defense" in Jordan playing years is a myth, as teams like Knicks and Detroit Bad Boys were both using zone defense durning their battles with the Bulls:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/A6_GgXXR4vA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/A6_GgXXR4vA</a>


Also, Michael was getting double and triple teams on a daily basics, specially going on against the Pistons:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5K-qGWkiKvQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/5K-qGWkiKvQ</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NLv2F33snCE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NLv2F33snCE</a>


You seem to make everbody believe that today's NBA is so great and players are so better than in the 90' s that it just looks stupid. And the most ridiculous post of all that I read often here is that MJ would have problems playing in the NBA today. People seems to forgot, that an old, injured and slow Michael Jordan at 40 was playing at an all-star level durning the so called "Kobe Bryant era", running the floor, beating young guys with fresh legs off the dribble and scoring 30 and 40 points against the so-called "elite defenders" of today's NBA.

LOL, what a joke.

i stopped taking u seriously in the opening sentence, when u said "MJ didn't have better teammates"....LMFAO. and no, the main reason why Kobe's field goal percentage is lower is because he has three point range, while Jordan didn't. Players who shoot threes naturally have lower field goal percentages. you know, Shaq also shot more efficiently than Jordan...u know why? BECAUSE HE HAD LESS RANGE. as for teammates, i'm not talking about the kobe-shaq teams..those teams were amazing and on par with the Bulls....but ever since Shaq left, Kobe hasn't had ANY teams comparable to the Bulls. Scottie Pippen, at one point, was regarded the 2nd best player in the NBA behind Jordan. dude literally did EVERYTHING. on defense, he was assigned the best player on the perimeter and would typically lock them down. on offense, he was a point forward who ran the offense to perfection. If Kobe had a player like Pippen to play with for these past 10 years, believe that he would currently have more rings than just 5. then you have Horace Grant, who was also an all-star, so was BJ Armstrong...Dennis Rodman was the greatest rebounder in NBA history...Ron Harper was the perfect vet to run point in the triangle...dependable sharp shooters like Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Toni Kukoc, etc. who the Lakers NEVER had (especially not this year). and most of all, great team play. Those sort of luxuries open the game for players like Jordan, and Kobe has not had them in these past few years. I've said it before, the year Kobe went back-to-back, he did it with WAY less than Jordan ever did it with.

now, u say we had 2 of the top big men in the league when Kobe won....nope. Bynum was injured and didn't even play or got limited minutes. Gasol was playing big those years, but he hasn't been consistent, and in terms of a second option, he's NEVER been comparable to a player like Pippen. Jordan never had bigs? shiiit, he had Rodman, who locked down the opposing big night in and night out...thats more than we can say for Gasol. and yes, being the greatest rebounder of all time is pretty big, as well.


and the NBA today isn't "so much greater"...but the athleticism has definitely gone way up. Jordan played mostly against a bunch of slow aging players on the perimeter. It wasn't a superstar filled league like today where you have Durant, Wade, LeBron, Melo, etc. jumpin out the buildin...i dont care what the Pistons did in the 80s, zone defense rules were completely different back then, and yes, it was illegal. Like i said, defenses were way less crowded on the perimeter back then. this is just common sense.....oh yea, and despite the fact that he was old, Jordan was pretty mediocre during his run with the Wizards. Kobe schooled him in one game, I will never forget, I was there. Kobe scored 42 points in the first half against him! he rested most of the second, but that shit was straight mind-blowing back then. If Kobe had the same luxuries as Jordan, who knows how many rings he'd have?

[Sccit]

When Jordan lost his athleticism he took turnaround fadeaways as well. He never forced it as much as Kobe does, hence the significantly better FG%. In Kobe's defense, Jordan never really took 3s like that. But maybe Kobe shouldn't either.. or at least less.

right.. but to me it seems that if Kobe didn't force the issue and just let the game come to him the way Jordan did.. then Kobe would barely average 20 a game.  Seems like Kobe has to take those tough shots consistently.

kobe currently doesn't have the teammates to let the game come to him...when ur second option is gasol and he plays like an 8th option of the bench, then u HAVE to force the issue. much easier to let the game come to u when ur on a great team as opposed to just a good one, ya feel me?

So having the "best center" in a league devoid of big men doesn't count?

how many rebounds did that best center have in the elimination game against the Thunder? Bynum is a beast, but he still has mental lapses, since he's still maturing and finding himself...this was his "Kobe airball vs the jazz" type moment. a straight learning experience. he was not experienced enough to be dependable..yet.

[Mietek23]

i stopped taking u seriously in the opening sentence, when u said "MJ didn't have better teammates"....LMFAO. and no, the main reason why Kobe's field goal percentage is lower is because he has three point range, while Jordan didn't. Players who shoot threes naturally have lower field goal percentages. you know, Shaq also shot more efficiently than Jordan...u know why? BECAUSE HE HAD LESS RANGE. as for teammates, i'm not talking about the kobe-shaq teams..those teams were amazing and on par with the Bulls....but ever since Shaq left, Kobe hasn't had ANY teams comparable to the Bulls. Scottie Pippen, at one point, was regarded the 2nd best player in the NBA behind Jordan. dude literally did EVERYTHING. on defense, he was assigned the best player on the perimeter and would typically lock them down. on offense, he was a point forward who ran the offense to perfection. If Kobe had a player like Pippen to play with for these past 10 years, believe that he would currently have more rings than just 5. then you have Horace Grant, who was also an all-star, so was BJ Armstrong...Dennis Rodman was the greatest rebounder in NBA history...Ron Harper was the perfect vet to run point in the triangle...dependable sharp shooters like Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Toni Kukoc, etc. who the Lakers NEVER had (especially not this year). and most of all, great team play. Those sort of luxuries open the game for players like Jordan, and Kobe has not had them in these past few years. I've said it before, the year Kobe went back-to-back, he did it with WAY less than Jordan ever did it with.

now, u say we had 2 of the top big men in the league when Kobe won....nope. Bynum was injured and didn't even play or got limited minutes. Gasol was playing big those years, but he hasn't been consistent, and in terms of a second option, he's NEVER been comparable to a player like Pippen. Jordan never had bigs? shiiit, he had Rodman, who locked down the opposing big night in and night out...thats more than we can say for Gasol. and yes, being the greatest rebounder of all time is pretty big, as well.


and the NBA today isn't "so much greater"...but the athleticism has definitely gone way up. Jordan played mostly against a bunch of slow aging players on the perimeter. It wasn't a superstar filled league like today where you have Durant, Wade, LeBron, Melo, etc. jumpin out the buildin...i dont care what the Pistons did in the 80s, zone defense rules were completely different back then, and yes, it was illegal. Like i said, defenses were way less crowded on the perimeter back then. this is just common sense.....oh yea, and despite the fact that he was old, Jordan was pretty mediocre during his run with the Wizards. Kobe schooled him in one game, I will never forget, I was there. Kobe scored 42 points in the first half against him! he rested most of the second, but that shit was straight mind-blowing back then. If Kobe had the same luxuries as Jordan, who knows how many rings he'd have?

I stopped taking you seriously after I read that BJ Amstrong was an All-Star... LOL.

I've said in my previous post, that Kobe never had a player like Pippen around him. But talentwise - his teamates had better basketball talent overall. If you think BJ Amstrong was an "All-Star" talent, or played at an "All-Star" level, then players like Artest should be called "Hall Of Famers" at least.

Michael had a solid 3-point range, but he didn't used it as much as Kobe simply because he had better shot selections than Mr. Bryant and was able to create better shot opportunities for himself due to his bigger body and higher athleticism. Michael was also more efficient and scored a lot easier because he let the triangle offense work for him, while Kobe is much more passive is his role, taking tougher shots and making his teamates just stand around and watch. I agree that Kobe is slightly better at 3-point shooting than MJ was, but he ain't a great 3-point shooter himself like you trying to pretend he is.

And please tell me, what's your definition of a BIG MAN? Cause Dennis Rodman was 6-7, 210 lbs and he wasen't a BIG MAN by any standars. Yes, he was a great rebounder and a great defender but on the other side of the floor - he was useless on offense and you know it. So don't compare his offensive contribution to Bynum and Gasol. Even if they're playing soft and with no heart - they still got better offensive numbers than Worm.

"Jordan played mostly against a bunch of slow aging players on the perimeter. It wasn't a superstar filled league like today..." - wrong again. Back then, the NBA had just as much talent as today. Jordan was guarded by Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Ray Allen, Latrell Sprewell, Hersey Hawkins, Nick Anderson and so on. Not to mention elite defenders like Payton or Dumars who were shorter than Mike but their defensive skills were incredible. Naming them "slow, aging players" is a ridiculous statement and it clearly shows you will turn everything around just to prove your point.

Oh, and since averaging 20 points, 6 rebounds, 4 asists for a 40-year old guy that's playing with an injured leg is "MEDICIORE", than LOL - I don't have anything else to say. But since you so in love with statistics, how your feeling with a fact, that a 40-year old Jordan had better steal & block shots numbers than Kobe had this & last season?

Plus Kobe didn't schooled Jordan in that 55-point game of his - most of Kobe's points were made when he was guarded by Jerry Stackhouse. He scored 42 points against Washington Wizards - not Michael Jordan. Get your facts straight and stop lying to people.