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To the muthaphukka that said....
M Dogg™:
Shit... I would say the 2003 Bengals would handle the '72 Dolphines... Barry Bonds would out slug Hank Aaron, and Shaq would kill Wilt. All true, but Ali lose, I can't see it in his prime. He had something I've only seen in Jordan, that's greatness. Lewis would whip the shit out of Frazier, Norton, Holmes, shit, Tua would, but Ali is something different. Joe Luis, the first greatest of all times would get beat bad. But Ali was just that damn great. Roy, that would be a great fight. I ain't arguing past vs. present, I think the present would win, but nothing beats greatness, a person who will die before he loses. Someone that will play very sick, fight through a broken jaw and win (Ali did that). Modern days can beat old days, but no one can beat greatness. Greatness ages, like Jordan and Ali, but greatness last along time, and greatness is forever remembered. Only two athletes I think are great, and at anytime, no one can beat them.
.:DayGoStyLz:.:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on March 03, 2003, 06:28:32 PM ---Shit... I would say the 2003 Bengals would handle the '72 Dolphines... Barry Bonds would out slug Hank Aaron, and Shaq would kill Wilt. All true, but Ali lose, I can't see it in his prime.
--- End quote ---
didnt Frazier beat him?
As for tha whole "greatness" thing. True he was great, but the great can be beatin too. EVERYONE has some out there, better then them. EVERYONE. Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time, but guess what...in 30 yrs there will be someone better. As hard, or for some, even impossible to imagine....its true. No one EVER thought theres be a better player then Babe Ruth. No one ever thought thered be a better runner then Walter Payton. No one ever thought thered be a Professional Golfer that was black, let alone...be the best in the world, maybe the best ever. No one ever thought there would be a better boxer then Joe Louis, then came Ali. People, in this area...always improve. U could say Ali was the greatest boxer ever, for his time in history. But Ali wouldnt go the distance with todays fighters.
Remember, the older fighters paved the way...in more ways then one. The reason newer generation fighters/players (depending on what sport) are always better then the past fighters/players...is because they have the chance to learn from the past. They can incorporate that things that made those PAST fighters great, as well as use modern technology to train...and improve upon what past fighters did.
M Dogg™:
When someone takes an old player, and ranks them with modern players, and says they can beat them, what they are saying is, is that player/fighter, had something that will not let them lose until they are older. When Ali lost to Frazier, he had just cameback from along lay off, and wasn't ready to fight the heavyweight champion of the world. But, he did a great job, and never gave up. Ali didn't lose again for years. Lewis is so big, but he mainly jabs and then sets up for his right hand. If I've seen a lot of Ali fights, then I've too many Lewis fights. He uses his reach, his ring smarts, and his power to over wealm people. David Tua, goood power punch, couldn't get through, Mike Tyson, the same, Holyfield, was a thinker but Lewis was too big. Style is everything, and Lewis style is perfect for beating the modern era fighters of the Frazier, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield generation. The problem is, is that Ali is the greatest. Ali beat the Fraziers, the Foremans, the Listons, even Michael Spinks, the 70's version of Roy Jones. Ali's style was fast, hand speed of a middleweight, foot speed of welterweight, detremation of a true champion, and unlike Lewis, a chin that wouldn't fall, even when broken. Ali talked big, and backed it up. Ask Lewis, he'll tell you Ali was the greatest. Ask any boxer, and they'll tell you, because if Ali was around today, he would not allow himself to lose, he'll think of something. Rope-a-dope was thought up of in the ring against a bigger, more powerful, and skillful George Foreman. Ali was scared of people, yeah, but then he would take that fear, and beat the shit out of someone. He was the most skilled heavyweight that ever lived.
As for Roy, I too think we are looking at the greatest pound for pound fighter ever. Whatever doubt I had before, he disproved it beating a man 30 pounds heavier. Roy has to be the greatest pound per pound. If him at 199, vs. Ali at 215, I think it would be the greatest fight see in the heavyweight division ever. Roy is just too damn good. Ali though is too damn great, 'cause Roy wouldn't get hit, Ali is fast enought to catch him. Ali was fast as shit, and punched Liston in .3 seconds. A punch that couldn't be seen unless you slow the tape down. Ali was just damn fast, faster than any boxer today still. Roy is close though, and Roy as a heavyweight vs. a young Ali, I would pay $100 for that pay-per-view. Lewis, well, he will have his place in history, but next to Ali, not ever, he ain't got greatness, his just very good, which is better than Tyson, Holmes, Spinks, even Frazier. but greatness is something different. Like Jordan changing his style to a mare shooting base game to win after being the most athletic, or Ali changing to a more flat footed slugger after losing speed. Greatness changes, Greatness can win at any era. Only two athletes I think were great, and Payton, Brown, and Montana are close, but only two I think were just great. Maybe Montana, that's to be seen what else comes.
.:DayGoStyLz:.:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on March 04, 2003, 08:39:01 AM ---Roy is just too damn good. Ali though is too damn great, 'cause Roy wouldn't get hit, Ali is fast enought to catch him. Ali was fast as shit, and punched Liston in .3 seconds. A punch that couldn't be seen unless you slow the tape down.
--- End quote ---
theres no way in the world Ali could catch up to Jones. Ali was a quick heavyweight, yes....for HIS time. Not this one. As for that Liston punch....lol@ Liston taking a dive.
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: .:DayGoStyLz:. on March 04, 2003, 08:53:42 AM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on March 04, 2003, 08:39:01 AM ---Roy is just too damn good. Ali though is too damn great, 'cause Roy wouldn't get hit, Ali is fast enought to catch him. Ali was fast as shit, and punched Liston in .3 seconds. A punch that couldn't be seen unless you slow the tape down.
--- End quote ---
theres no way in the world Ali could catch up to Jones. Ali was a quick heavyweight, yes....for HIS time. Not this one. As for that Liston punch....lol@ Liston taking a dive.
--- End quote ---
Son, Now I Know you just talking... lol... NIK.
Anyways, Ali was fast as hell, fastest heavyweight ever, I guess next to Roy now. But Ali wouldn't lose. Roy's never took a hit. Hell, he has just trashed all his opponites. Ali had middleweight hand speed, even for todays fighters. I think Ali takes that fight, barely, 'cause Roy has what Ali had, too much pride. That's it, pride, who wants it more. That's who wins, and Ali and Jordan are the only two that are on top of that.
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