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To the muthaphukka that said....
Citizen-Y:
--- Quote from: verbalassaulta on March 03, 2003, 10:09:36 AM --- ::) ...we could debate this for weeks...but you bring up a good point...this is the greatest era of heavyweights...
SNIP
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If you believe that than I pity you and the rest of your offspring.
.:DayGoStyLz:.:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on March 04, 2003, 11:49:29 AM ---
Son, Now I Know you just talking... lol... NIK.
Anyways, Ali was fast as hell, fastest heavyweight ever, I guess next to Roy now. But Ali wouldn't lose. Roy's never took a hit. Hell, he has just trashed all his opponites. Ali had middleweight hand speed, even for todays fighters. I think Ali takes that fight, barely, 'cause Roy has what Ali had, too much pride. That's it, pride, who wants it more. That's who wins, and Ali and Jordan are the only two that are on top of that.
--- End quote ---
so u honestly dont believe that athletes get better over time? Even professional athletes will admit that. Evander talked about it before in an interview. When asked how he would compare to Ali...he said, "id beat him". It sounded crazy to some of the people in tha audience at first, but when he went on to explain, everybody understood. Not that he's "better" then Ali for HIS time. But he went on to explain, that training methods just improve. Fighters learn from past fighters. And ALWAYS improve. He didnt jus say, that he's better then Ali. But that, 20 yrs from now...someone else will be better then him, or Tyson, or whoever. It ALWAYS happens. Ali might have done the most for the sport of boxing (still up for debate, Joe Louis), but that doesnt change the fact that he couldnt beat heavyweights today, including Roy Jones.
I know youve watched old clips of NBA games right? Games back when shit was still black and white on tha tv lol. Some of the GREATest players of all time, didnt even dribble the ball with their left. I mean, shit that 4 yr olds do today! U think Basketball is the only sport where this happens? Hell naw. Athletes get bigger, faster, and more skilled. Fact.
Ali was great, maybe the title "Greatest of all Time" fits him. But that doesnt change the fact that theres no way he'd win in todays era. Even the great Middleweights, etc. that we used to have, (Sugar Ray, Hagler, Tommy Hearns, etc) would git KO'd by sum1 like Roy Jones (in his lighter dayz), or many other people now.
M Dogg™:
I'm not debating old vs. new. Older athletes don't have the training and steriods... I mean medical advances of today. Shit, it would be a whip out for new athletes to beat on old onces. But Ali was in a class in his own... IMO. He stood for more to boxing than anyone, and he battled giants (Foreman, who was winning as an old man still), warriors (Holmes, who still beats on younger people 'till he was like 47) and in his day, the old legands (beat the shit out of Floyd Paterson). Ali was a legand, he was great, he had a versital fighting still. Never has anyone made up for lack of speed and size like Ali did in his older days, when he was wahed up and still winning. Andas I said, Roy is going to that level. Roy is the greatest pound per pound fighter ever. Better than Sugar Ray Robinson, Lenard, (this is a Mexican saying this so you know it must be true) Julio Caeser Chavez, De La Hoya, anyone. Roy is one of the greatest. He beat Hopkins, and everyone else. Roy and Ali are in the same class. That's a given. Lewis is up there by just size, but not skill. His style is too plain, jab and set up for the right. Can beat Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, and Liston. No questions aske, Lewis is the most physically dominating champion ever. But who would win a one on one game, Shaq or Jordan, both in there prime. Or would you draft Joe Montana or Jeff George. George was physically dominate of Montana in every catigory. I agree, present beats the past. But as I said, Greatness beats all.
.:DayGoStyLz:.:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on March 07, 2003, 03:27:10 PM ---I'm not debating old vs. new. Older athletes don't have the training and steriods... I mean medical advances of today. Shit, it would be a whip out for new athletes to beat on old onces. But Ali was in a class in his own... IMO. He stood for more to boxing than anyone, and he battled giants (Foreman, who was winning as an old man still), warriors (Holmes, who still beats on younger people 'till he was like 47) and in his day, the old legands (beat the shit out of Floyd Paterson). Ali was a legand, he was great, he had a versital fighting still. Never has anyone made up for lack of speed and size like Ali did in his older days, when he was wahed up and still winning. Andas I said, Roy is going to that level. Roy is the greatest pound per pound fighter ever. Better than Sugar Ray Robinson, Lenard, (this is a Mexican saying this so you know it must be true) Julio Caeser Chavez, De La Hoya, anyone. Roy is one of the greatest. He beat Hopkins, and everyone else. Roy and Ali are in the same class. That's a given. Lewis is up there by just size, but not skill. His style is too plain, jab and set up for the right. Can beat Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, and Liston. No questions aske, Lewis is the most physically dominating champion ever. But who would win a one on one game, Shaq or Jordan, both in there prime. Or would you draft Joe Montana or Jeff George. George was physically dominate of Montana in every catigory. I agree, present beats the past. But as I said, Greatness beats all.
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^^first off, Chavez was garbage LOL!! 90% of his fights were against who? I bet even the biggest Chavez fan could only name 10 of his opponents ever lol. He lived of a big number of victories, without really fighting contenders. De La Hoya...also trash. Highly overrated IMO. He quit the game for a bit, to get away from Mosley. Trinidad beat him, before gettin TAPPED by Hopkins. Pernell beat him, but got cheated out of the shit.
As for the steriods, they were far more popular among pro athletes about 15-20 yrs ago, then they are now. And todayz athletes would run over those of 15-20 yrs ago.
And as for Ali, theres no debating hes a legend. Theres no debating what he's done. Theres no debating any of that. I luv Ali, i just know he cant win in this era.
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: .:DayGoStyLz:. on March 07, 2003, 10:22:49 PM ---^^first off, Chavez was garbage LOL!! 90% of his fights were against who? I bet even the biggest Chavez fan could only name 10 of his opponents ever lol. He lived of a big number of victories, without really fighting contenders. De La Hoya...also trash. Highly overrated IMO. He quit the game for a bit, to get away from Mosley. Trinidad beat him, before gettin TAPPED by Hopkins. Pernell beat him, but got cheated out of the shit.
And as for Ali, theres no debating hes a legend. Theres no debating what he's done. Theres no debating any of that. I luv Ali, i just know he cant win in this era.
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LOL... don't talk about Chavez, he was great... lol. I know about Chavez, but if a Mexican can admit someone is better than him, you ain't knowing, it's huge. I wouldn't put someone that high unless I mean it.
Back to Ali. Lets face, an old George Foreman was winning in these era. Nuff said, case close. Bigger isn't better, just bigger with skillz is. Those Klitschko might be the next greatest to step in the ring. 6'7", 250 lbs. apiece. And both are extremely skilled. Ali was 6'3" 220, and Lewis is 6'5" 240. Those brothers are bigger than both, just too much to beat. Why would Lewis fight them, 'cause they are as much bigger to him as he is to Ali. Now that's phyisically dominating.
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