What was the deal with Hammer being on Death Row anyway?

[DeeezNuuuts83]

But at that time, Hammer's albums didn't have too many competitors on that level, and mainstream hip-hop was a new thing.  Similarly, that's part of why Vanilla Ice's album was also very successful.

[GangstaBoogy]

1. He was a big name sure to draw attention. Any publicity is good publicity.

2. He was their attempt at the alternative crowd. For the rap fans that liked the radio / Puffy sound and not the gangsta shit.

3. Reread number 1.

[Hack Wilson - real]

I think they did it for sales...
you gotta remember how big Hammer was in the early 90s.

His album Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em sold more than
any 2Pac album, and any Dre or Snoop album -
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_hip_hop_albums_in_the_United_States

Only Eminem, Biggie, and Outkast have particular albums that sold more, and the Biggie and Outkast
albums were double albums!!
So really only Eminem has had albums that sold more than that Hammer album...

yes and no


death row stopped paying to keep track of sales around 2000 ish so they stopped counting at 9 million

[M Dogg™]

Officially Eminem has outsold 2Pac, but 2Pac has sold so many re-releases and post death albums that it's very hard to imagine him being number 2 if anyone ever paid for his album sales to be counted. Plus I can't even imagine the digital copies 2Pac has sold as every high school kid I ever worked with had at least Me Against the World or his Greatest Hits on their iPods and smart phone. And they usually buy their music legally. But 2Pac's numbers have not been accurate since 2001, so who knows.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Officially Eminem has outsold 2Pac, but 2Pac has sold so many re-releases and post death albums that it's very hard to imagine him being number 2 if anyone ever paid for his album sales to be counted. Plus I can't even imagine the digital copies 2Pac has sold as every high school kid I ever worked with had at least Me Against the World or his Greatest Hits on their iPods and smart phone. And they usually buy their music legally. But 2Pac's numbers have not been accurate since 2001, so who knows.

Yup.  I think the only album that was released before 2000-2001 that has been updated as far as RIAA certifications go was the Greatest Hits album.  But Amaru likely doesn't care much about AEOM or Makaveli being certified, but it's hard to believe that AEOM isn't at least diamond by now or that Makaveli isn't at least 5X or 6X platinum.

[Hack Wilson - real]

nice to see Illmatic is listed at 3x plat now


i remember when that shit was still gold

[123imagee]

I Never Understood The Logic Behind Suge´s Moves, Like Signing 1000 People To The Label And NOT Release Their Stuff.

[M Dogg™]

Officially Eminem has outsold 2Pac, but 2Pac has sold so many re-releases and post death albums that it's very hard to imagine him being number 2 if anyone ever paid for his album sales to be counted. Plus I can't even imagine the digital copies 2Pac has sold as every high school kid I ever worked with had at least Me Against the World or his Greatest Hits on their iPods and smart phone. And they usually buy their music legally. But 2Pac's numbers have not been accurate since 2001, so who knows.

Yup.  I think the only album that was released before 2000-2001 that has been updated as far as RIAA certifications go was the Greatest Hits album.  But Amaru likely doesn't care much about AEOM or Makaveli being certified, but it's hard to believe that AEOM isn't at least diamond by now or that Makaveli isn't at least 5X or 6X platinum.

With 2 re-releases since 2001, AEOM should be at least 15 million. They wouldn't re-release AEOM unless they make money.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

With 2 re-releases since 2001, AEOM should be at least 15 million. They wouldn't re-release AEOM unless they make money.

I strongly disagree.  Re-releases hardly cost any money, especially since the marketing for them wasn't a huge effort anyway.  That's why Death Row probably did them, because it causes a slight spike in sales, especially if there's some slight difference in them (i.e. remastered audio, enhanced CD with music videos), yet it's something that they could put together in a couple of days.  If it was selling that quantity, it would at least consistently be in the top 100 albums on Billboard, which it hasn't been for some time.  Even the ones at the very bottom of that are moving at least a few thousand records a week, which it would need to be doing to have sold that much more over what it's been certified.  But let's be honest, most people who wanted All Eyez on Me probably bought it within the first few years, and it's not like another six million sales would've occurred between that time frame without it having re-entered the Billboard charts, even at the bottom.  And people who wanted it over the past ten years very well may have either downloaded it through filesharing or a legit internet purchase, which is counted but not necessarily toward the same certification (as some releases have separate digital certifications).

I have no problem believing that it's at 10 or 11 million by now, maybe even 12.  But saying it's "at least" 15 million is overestimating Pac's popularity when even the brand new stuff released since then (SIR, UTEOT, BD in particular since everything else after that didn't move a lot of units) doesn't sell anything close to what AEOM would've had to have done to be at 15, yet the newer stuff charted, debuting with however many sales, and stayed on the charts for however long while AEOM wasn't registering on the charts, so there's no way it would've outsold everything else.

[M Dogg™]

With 2 re-releases since 2001, AEOM should be at least 15 million. They wouldn't re-release AEOM unless they make money.

I strongly disagree.  Re-releases hardly cost any money, especially since the marketing for them wasn't a huge effort anyway.  That's why Death Row probably did them, because it causes a slight spike in sales, especially if there's some slight difference in them (i.e. remastered audio, enhanced CD with music videos), yet it's something that they could put together in a couple of days.  If it was selling that quantity, it would at least consistently be in the top 100 albums on Billboard, which it hasn't been for some time.  Even the ones at the very bottom of that are moving at least a few thousand records a week, which it would need to be doing to have sold that much more over what it's been certified.  But let's be honest, most people who wanted All Eyez on Me probably bought it within the first few years, and it's not like another six million sales would've occurred between that time frame without it having re-entered the Billboard charts, even at the bottom.  And people who wanted it over the past ten years very well may have either downloaded it through filesharing or a legit internet purchase, which is counted but not necessarily toward the same certification (as some releases have separate digital certifications).

I have no problem believing that it's at 10 or 11 million by now, maybe even 12.  But saying it's "at least" 15 million is overestimating Pac's popularity when even the brand new stuff released since then (SIR, UTEOT, BD in particular since everything else after that didn't move a lot of units) doesn't sell anything close to what AEOM would've had to have done to be at 15, yet the newer stuff charted, debuting with however many sales, and stayed on the charts for however long while AEOM wasn't registering on the charts, so there's no way it would've outsold everything else.

Only thing is it's a double disc, meaning sales are double. So at 9 million in 2001, means 4.5 million sold until 2001. You figure about 1-1.5 million sales on a re-release and that's about 2-3 million a piece. So if you go with 1.5 million each re-release (which is not unheard of as 'Pac's albums have been about 1-3 million a release since UTEOT) then you double that, and you get 3+3=6, 6+6=15. And I think I'm being conservative in that estimate.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Only thing is it's a double disc, meaning sales are double. So at 9 million in 2001, means 4.5 million sold until 2001. You figure about 1-1.5 million sales on a re-release and that's about 2-3 million a piece. So if you go with 1.5 million each re-release (which is not unheard of as 'Pac's albums have been about 1-3 million a release since UTEOT) then you double that, and you get 3+3=6, 6+6=15. And I think I'm being conservative in that estimate.

I know that, and the fact it was a double album was already factored in my thoughts but doesn't change the numbers.  But the way SoundScan and RIAA work, they already count a double album as two, so let's not make it confusing and just go with the total end count.  But to think that each (half-assed) re-release is selling that quantity is just unreasonable.  The main stuff after that point -- basically UTEOT and BD -- were both double albums, so their numbers get duplicated the same way.  UTEOT was certified 3X platinum, BD was certified 2X platinum.  Both albums debuted right around the top of the charts (as I don't think BD was #1) and more or less fell off the charts.  Those are albums with all new material, music videos, marketing, etc.  And all while they were on the charts, AEOM wasn't ever in the top 100.

To be fair, those two Amaru/Death Row double albums haven't been re-certified in a while and may not reflect its most accurate numbers, but again, it's not likely to be too far beyond that since sales obviously taper off after initial release, especially not with the way file sharing impacted album sales at that point along with the digital download age popularized by iTunes and such.

Think about it -- with each re-release, did they ever appear back on the Billboard charts?  No.  Those are based on SoundScan sales, which are what cause albums to be ordered and stocked for sale, which count toward RIAA certifications when they happened.  People weren't rushing to Best Buy or wherever to get the newest Pac re-release the way they bought the new 50 Cent or Eminem CD.  Seriously, no one was really excited about any of the re-releases (and even on the forums, most people didn't really care), which again are the 99.99% same shit, just repackaged, and not even really issued because of demand either, just a lame effort to re-sell you the same thing you already own.  At least the various Death Row "best of" albums re-arranged songs and may have given access to a song that some people didn't have (unless they owned every Death Row album) and sometimes put on new material, both of which were legit reasons for people to buy something with mostly old stuff.  It's just unbelievable to think that that has fueled another few MILLION sales.

We're just not going to see eye to eye on this, but I just have a hard time believing that there are another three million physical units (meaning another six platinum certifications) that have been sold at stores since then, when its previous certification meant that there have been at least four and a half million physical purchases of the album from its release until that point (and you figure most people who really wanted it already bought it, especially after Pac's death).  I just don't see the physical purchases/orders of it having increased at least 66.7% (in order to mean that it would be 15X platinum) given the data.