Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
WHO IS THE GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME?
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on February 04, 2014, 09:35:08 PM ---But he played great in the system...and actually won. Like more than anyone else. That actually happened. Those events actually took place in the world we...or at least I...live in. He was more productive in the system than Marino was trying to put the team on his back...more successful....BETTER. What in God's green Earth don't you understand about that?
AND DONT YOU DARE RESPOND WITH IMAGINARY, FANTASY ROSTERS THAT DIDNT EXIST IN THIS SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM.
I do find it funny that you get way more personal than you used too. Manning finally having everything you've cried for years he lacked and STILL get his ass annihilated in the biggest game of his career has destroyed your equilibrium in life.
--- End quote ---
I'm not taking anything personal, but you've gotten so much stupider I have to make a point of it.
And don't you dare say Manning got what I have been crying for. I called Denver a mistake the second he agreed to visit with them. You can look up my posts if you want but I'm pretty sure I called Denver the worst of all the teams he visited. It's a slightly upgraded Colts. It's a safe team with no killers and no heart to fight.
I wanted him on a smashmouth team that goes for the kill and doesn't need big play by a QB to get it done.
The fact remains, no QB has ever won a fucking ring with out the team around him playing better than he played. That's not an if, or a hypothetical, or imaginary. That's a fact. Idiots like you like to buy into the bullshit the racist NFL sells that this lone white knight around all those stupid niggers is the reason the teams are lifted up and come to fight, but people like me know better. Pussies like Brady and Montana sit back and coast while the hard working mostly black men around them do all the heavy lifting and the white knights get all the credit. This isn't hollywood, or Braveheart, or Fucking Mel Gibson.
WATCH THE FUCKING GAMES. SEE THE FUCKING TIME IN THE POCKET. IF YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT A FUCKING A GAP IS; SEE HOW MUCH SPACE IS IN IT!
It's not an if. It's not a would have happened. It's and actually happened. The fact remains Joe was never hurried in the pocket in the big games, his WRs weren't losing the battles, his defenses weren't letting up big drive after big drive, and his special teams weren't fucking up all over the field. When every other aspect of the game is dominated by your team, the QB better win. Because when the rest of his team did lose those battles, guess what fucking happened; Joe Cool fucking lost. Not would have lost. actually fucking lost. Between his 2nd and 3rd Superbowls were 3 Montana one and dones, and his numbers and performance were fucking shit in all three. Why? Did he all of a sudden become worse as a QB? Did not know how to handle the big moment? No. His fucking team got beat by the other team all over the field and his performance was a direct result of that.
The Broncos didn't beat the Pats this year in the playoffs because Peyton lifted them and beat Brady. The Broncos beat the Pats in every aspect of the game and thus won the game. Brady was hurried, hit, and sacked, and naturally his throws were affected by it. In the Chargers game I think Rivers actually played better than Manning, but the Chargers lost because they lost against the Broncos everywhere else.
TEAMS WIN GAMES!
Remedy360:
Well, that escalated quickly.
O.G A.Geesta'z:
Troy Aikman
Chamillitary Click:
lmaoooo @ a top ten defense not being enough. Needed the #1 defense or bust. ::)
I just don't understand your point. You're just sitting here pouring out your tears over gunslingers not getting enough credit because they can't win because that style of offense doesn't win. So clearly if that hasn't won in 48 years...to continue to try to do that is fucking autistic. So why in the holy fuck are you giving someone credit for losing & bashing championship QBs for being smart enough to play as a team??
YOU. JUST. CRIED. that teams win games...so "Shame on the QB who plays his role on the team"?? Because as far as I'm concerned if you're playing your role as QB on the team & winning 3 Super Bowls (and of course an amazing QB in general) that's MORE IMPRESSIVE than throwing 4,500 yards & losing.
But I know you're not talking about Brady this year...lmfao. Don't even start. Those Colt teams back in the day were more talented.
Your entire stance is just so flawed. Especially because you don't understand Manning has been winning at least 10 games for over a decade "dominating defenses", but then runs into a real defense in the playoffs (which makes sense because good teams make the playoffs) & he's proven time...and time...and time...and time...and time again, he can't win. Because maybe he's just not as great as the NFL has brainwashed you into thinking. Just playing down to his competition & you're blaming WR's for routes run & his defense giving up 21 points & his running game not being the greatest. When you should just realize Peyton just can't do what Peyton does against real defenses because they're not stupid enough to let this "white knight surrounded by a bunch of niggers" beat them.
EVEN MORE FLAWED BECAUSE YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT AGAINST BRADY IS PUTTING BRADY ON ANOTHER TEAM AND SPECULATING ON HOW HE WOULD PLAY.
WHICH.
IS.
FUCKING.
RETARDED.
BECAUSE.
THAT.
ISN'T.
REALITY.
I can't stress how many times I've seen you write "If Peyton was on 'this team' he'd have six rings by now". Like nigga....how the fuck you going to give him credit for something that "could" of happened if the universe was completely different?
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on February 05, 2014, 09:45:16 AM ---lmaoooo @ a top ten defense not being enough. Needed the #1 defense or bust. ::)
I just don't understand your point. You're just sitting here pouring out your tears over gunslingers not getting enough credit because they can't win because that style of offense doesn't win. So clearly if that hasn't won in 48 years...to continue to try to do that is fucking autistic. So why in the holy fuck are you giving someone credit for losing & bashing championship QBs for being smart enough to play as a team??
YOU. JUST. CRIED. that teams win games...so "Shame on the QB who plays his role on the team"?? Because as far as I'm concerned if you're playing your role as QB on the team & winning 3 Super Bowls (and of course an amazing QB in general) that's MORE IMPRESSIVE than throwing 4,500 yards & losing.
But I know you're not talking about Brady this year...lmfao. Don't even start. Those Colt teams back in the day were more talented.
Your entire stance is just so flawed. Especially because you don't understand Manning has been winning at least 10 games for over a decade "dominating defenses", but then runs into a real defense in the playoffs (which makes sense because good teams make the playoffs) & he's proven time...and time...and time...and time...and time again, he can't win. Because maybe he's just not as great as the NFL has brainwashed you into thinking. Just playing down to his competition & you're blaming WR's for routes run & his defense giving up 21 points & his running game not being the greatest. When you should just realize Peyton just can't do what Peyton does against real defenses because they're not stupid enough to let this "white knight surrounded by a bunch of niggers" beat them.
EVEN MORE FLAWED BECAUSE YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT AGAINST BRADY IS PUTTING BRADY ON ANOTHER TEAM AND SPECULATING ON HOW HE WOULD PLAY.
WHICH.
IS.
FUCKING.
RETARDED.
BECAUSE.
THAT.
ISN'T.
REALITY.
I can't stress how many times I've seen you write "If Peyton was on 'this team' he'd have six rings by now". Like nigga....how the fuck you going to give him credit for something that "could" of happened if the universe was completely different?
--- End quote ---
I'll concede one thing right off the bat. You are right; there is no point in bringing up the IF arguments. I should just stick to the WHEN arguments, because they are what lead to my IF arguments. It's useless to argue hypothetical.
As for your other points; I don't get what you mean by a QB playing part of the system. It's not like Manning is choosing to ignore the rest of the team. My argument is when the team plays like the shit, more often than not, the QB plays like shit because of that. When the o-line doesn't allow time in the pocket or an open A-gap to step up to the QB rushes passes and makes worse throws. When the WRs don't gain separation from DBs the QB completes less passes. When the running back can't find holes and gain yards and the QB is forced into throwing situations the opposing defenses have an easier time defending with more DBs. It's a big part of the reason Brady had no TDs in the first 3 quarters of the AFC Championship game, and those factors changing in the 4th quarter is a big part of the reason he had two TDs in that quarter. It's also a big part of the reason Brady was held scoreless in the second half of last year's AFC Title Game against Baltimore. Watch the games and see for yourself. See the difference in Brady when there is time and space to throw compared to when there isn't. My argument isn't just for all QBs, but that when Brady goes through that he usualy looks a lot worse than Peyton does in those same situations.
You really need to watch the Niners playoff games against the Giants in 85 and 86 to see how Joe Montana looked when the physical pressure was on, guys weren't getting open, and the run game couldn't make it happen. And this was with the same great teams he had when he won the rings, but the teams didn't play great those nights and Joe was a victim of it. That 49-3 Loss was a disaster but it wasn't because Joe wasn't good enough to make it a game. It was because the Giants simply out played the 9ers everywhere that night.
As for Peyton in the playoffs vs the Season, I simply don't see how people get it so twisted. He usually loses games in the playoffs to the same teams or same styles that beat him in the regular season. In 03 he lost to the Pats D at home in the regular season and then on the road in the playoffs, in 04 he lost to the Pats D in the season and then again in the playoffs. In 05 he lost his perfect season bid in the 14th game against San Diego's defense, and then in the playoffs the Steelers played that exact same style to beat him in the playoffs. He did beat the Steelers in the season that year but his numbers and play wasn't anything special. They won that game based a lot on the run game and James gaining 150 yards, and lost in the playoffs in large part due to the run game and James not being able to get even 50 yards. In 07 and 08 it was the Chargers again that usually beat him in the season.
People want to make it seem like the same defenses that he destroys in the season show up in the playoffs and his nerves get the better of him. That line you made about autistic; it's something I had wondered about the Colts for years. They saw what beat them every year and decided not to change anything all those years. Why did they never try and mimmick the teams that beat them in the season, then in the playoffs, and then went on to win the ring? Why did they never draft or trade for smashmouth guys? Or big time playmaking WRs? The only major acquisition the Colts ever made while Manning was there was a kicker.
And when he chose Denver I cringed. It was an improvement from what Peyton left but it wasn't that much better. It was the same style of coach that set up the same style of team. I don't know why Manning even visited, or why he was going out of his way to visit dumps like Miami and Arizona, but wouldn't even sit down with Seattle or KC. I had said then that KC had all the pieces of a juggernaut, but just needed the right offensive guidance to break through. We saw how fast they turned around with Andy Ried. I though that Romeo Crenel's defense with Peyton running the offense would have been a much deadlier team than the Broncos. They threw their name in the hat and Peyton declined before meeting anyone. Maybe he wants it to be harder on him. Maybe he wants to prove something to himself. I don't know. But I'd rather he had just gone to a team where he wouldn't have to do so much and games and rings could be won with or without great QB play. The opportunity was there for him in SF and SEA. He chose Denver.
I said Denver, just like the Colts, were not a tough team that could win a fist fight and what I worried about when he went there was what happened Sunday night. It was like Floyd Mayweather vs Mike Tyson; no matter how smart Floyd is and how well he can anticipate what's coming, he just doesn't stand a chance against the power of Tyson. That's primarily what the Broncos looked like on Sunday. Peyton wasn't outsmarted. There was nothing complicated about Seattle's D. They simply hit and hit and hit and rushed the passer, and destroyed the line. There were no plays to call to change that and nothing Peyton could do but go down with the ship, despite what Sherman said on TV afterwards.
It was a lot like Lombardi's teams of the 60s. He made it very clear that his prerogative was to run the simplest offenses and defenses in the league but attain and prepare the best talent available and make them beat you. Landry was the coach that tried to do the outsmarting; with complicated offenses and defenses. Lombardi simply drafted fighters and coached them to fight. That's the type of team I wanted Peyton on. Sadly, it'll never happen.
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