Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
KEVIN DURANT'S MT. RUSHMORE
Hack Wilson - real:
not just shaq but PRIME Shaq.
you know, the guy NIK was on here calling "the best center of all time" in 2002
Sccit:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on April 22, 2015, 04:44:44 PM ---"Kobe was closing out those games" LMAO. So Melo, T-Mac & Iverson were incapable of scoring late in games? They just never did it on that stage because they weren't privileged enough to play with Shaq, the Laker cast & have Phil coach.
--- End quote ---
none of those players are on kobe's level, and you already know this.....lol. just stop.
Sccit:
--- Quote from: Hack Brodenheimer on April 22, 2015, 04:50:15 PM ---not just shaq but PRIME Shaq.
you know, the guy NIK was on here calling "the best center of all time" in 2002
--- End quote ---
and he was definitely on pace to bein that in 2002.....poor work ethic hindered his career, bottom line
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Sccit on April 22, 2015, 02:26:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on April 22, 2015, 11:32:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on April 22, 2015, 10:51:24 AM ---Nigga, you're bugging. It's very simple to understand. Just follow.
LA was the UK of the West for those three years. Yeah, the SEC this year had Arkansas, quality squad. LSU put together a nice team this year. So did Utah in 2008 & sure, even the Nuggets with two of the most ball dominate players on the same floor.
It's not was the East better than the West. It's you said "Cleveland didn't go through anything in 2007" & I'm saying "If Cleveland didn't go through anything in 2007 with Daniel Gibson & Big Z as co-stars & you're diminishing that, then the same can be said that the Lakers run for the three years after wasn't all that impressive either since they had by far the best team in the West".
YES the Lakers did play better teams the following three years, but compared to the talent & coaching the Lakers had to the rest of the West it was like Kentucky playing #17 ranked Arkansas. You can have NIK type up the rosters, it doesn't change the fact that the Lakers & Celtics were like 100/100 squads & the next best teams were like 89/100 & 90/100. To put it in perspective, Cleveland was like an 80/100 team in 2007, but they had to play teams that were closer to 80/100 & even a Pistons team they beat that was better than them.
Here's a final example because it's incredible how it's not understood...It would be like having a two different free throw contests with 5 people in each. The first one has a guy who shoots 95% from the line & four guys that shooter 80% from the line. The second contest, has all guys that shoot between 60% & 65% from the line. Sure, the first contest has better shooters, but the champion was already decided before they started shooting. The second contest champion had to go through teams similar to their skill & still won.
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I think you mistake how I debate these things to how Sccit does. I don't give a FUCK about making Kobe look good. I don't really care who the Lakers had on the roster than wins, as long as they win. Bottom line. I don't give a fuck who LeBron has or doesn't have. He didn't have shit, but he was playing against shit. And if you are the leader of shit, against shit, you should win if you are a superstar. I give LeBron a pass in this way, he was 22. At 22, it's hard to beat a team like the Pistons, even though Detroit wasn't as good. They still had 3 core players from the 2004 team and they were still the best in the east. So for that, I give LeBron props. But pass that, he always played in a weak eastern conference. Even with stacked teams, he barely beat San Antonio and lost to them the next year. The Lakers went through great teams in the playoffs. Kobe led the way. He had help, but you need help to beat those San Antonio teams. When LeBron got help, he was able to move on. But with the whole thing on his shoulder, he barely was able to break through.
So here is my ranking of players since 2000:
1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. LeBron
4. Wade
5. Shaq
And I'm being generous to LeBron putting him over Wade and Shaq. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in terms of his playoff failures. But for sure, he's not better than Kobe or Duncan. That has been establish. And unless he has a huge run of MJ levels in his 30's, and his game isn't exactly an old man's game, I don't see him moving.
--- End quote ---
u lost this debate the moment you started trying to prove yourself.....cham is better at debating than you are, give it up LOL
but yea, he's wrong either way.....like u said, the 8th seed was a 50 win team. thats insane depth. the lakers were superior to the rest of the teams in the west soley due to kobe. you put kobe on the nuggets and melo on the lakers, and nuggets end up with that back-to-back. thats all it comes down to.
--- End quote ---
I was being nice. I think if you take Shaq from the mid-90's to mid-2000's, then he ranks over LeBron. But just 2000's, no. And trust me, saying Kobe is better than Shaq is not exactly easy for me.
But I think we debate two different things in basketball. I judge players with how they preform with what's given to them. If Kobe is playing with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Devon George as his other starters, I give him and pass and look at his production. But give him Gasol, Fisher and Bynum and Odom, and I judge him more harshly and expect rings. And since the Lakers won rings, then I look very favorable to that. With LeBron, I don't look at rings in Cleveland, which is why I called him the best of his era. He had shit teammates. But I do look at the rest of the east and it was shitty as well, so a superstar should be able to come out the east. When Boston was injured in 2009, everyone expected Cleveland to make it out the east. Instead Orlando came out, and after seeing Dwight outside of SVG's system, you realize how poor of a team that Magic team was. It was all SVG winning with that team. So you have to relook at the situation and see that LeBron might be overrated.
--- Quote from: Hack Brodenheimer on April 22, 2015, 03:52:52 PM ---if Iverson played with Shaq they'd probably have won 5 titles straight
--- End quote ---
As long as it was in LA, I would have been happy.
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on April 22, 2015, 12:57:49 PM ---To be fair, you hate LeBron. Not on a NIK level, but definitely some bias. You tend to get caught up in your firm belief that he has been on PEDs his entire career.
I understand though. I think our government was responsible for 9/11 so it's hard to ever give them the benefit of the doubt for me lol.
--- End quote ---
Nah, LeBron doesn't bother me. But as I reflect more on his career, I think he'll go down as one of the biggest puzzles. His career will never have that defining moment, he's almost like the Drake of basketball. Both have lots of success, but you have no idea what they stand for. Drake has no idea if he wants to sing or rap and it really messes up the flow of all his albums. LeBron doesn't ever know if he wants to be the star, or be a team player. So at the end of games he can either make the perfect basketball play that his teammate will brick, or he can hit the game winning shot and be a hero. But it really messes up the flow of a game and it's hard to judge him. But yeah, I've always said I think he's on PEDs. He has all the signs of PEDs.
Hack Wilson - real:
--- Quote from: Sccit on April 22, 2015, 06:59:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hack Brodenheimer on April 22, 2015, 04:50:15 PM ---not just shaq but PRIME Shaq.
you know, the guy NIK was on here calling "the best center of all time" in 2002
--- End quote ---
and he was definitely on pace to bein that in 2002.....poor work ethic hindered his career, bottom line
--- End quote ---
back tracking i see.
you called him the best ever as of 2002 - what happened after shouldn't affect your view
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