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Quote from: Sccit on January 12, 2016, 02:02:22 PMQuote from: abusive on January 12, 2016, 11:56:58 AMQuote from: eyeball on January 12, 2016, 10:16:49 AMThose who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T. The boy can do it in his sleep. Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have. , If you go and read the person who made this thread's first two post he is clearly talking about Dre getting credit for beats he didn't make. For some reason you guys want to ignore the very premise of this thread and start talking about overall song production. If Dre or anyone else in the industry is taking credit for beats they didn't do there is nothing wrong with discussing that. Whether it was done legally or illegally. If you want to discuss the broader issue of song production versus beat production then at least put it in its proper context of this discussion. It has been said that Daz had signed off on some tracks and Dre got the credit for it, why is it wrong to point that out or question what other beats he may not have created that was attributed to him? What I'm seeing here is the same thing I see in Train of Thought, some of you guys don't want to know the truth.So no, I don't know what beats Dre has done on his own and despite the back and forth none of us do. To say that a beat sounds like Dre doesn't really mean anything. You can go to youtube now and see a million types of beats that beat producers make that sound just like some other beat producer. The fact that Dre has always had someone with him from the Straight Outta Compton days, the drastic change in sound from the first to the second NWA album and other examples I listed in my previous post makes me wonder exactly what his role is in creating beats. There was never a drastic change in dre's sound, but rather a natural evolution and progression in style.. But it all connects, if u listen to each album one after the other, you can hear the growthThere is a huge difference between Straight/100 and NFL. NFL has the g-funk sound, which Big Hutch is credited with creating. To say that there is a nature progression is to give Dre credit for creating the sound he didn't. As if somehow he would have naturally created that sound anyway.
Quote from: abusive on January 12, 2016, 11:56:58 AMQuote from: eyeball on January 12, 2016, 10:16:49 AMThose who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T. The boy can do it in his sleep. Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have. , If you go and read the person who made this thread's first two post he is clearly talking about Dre getting credit for beats he didn't make. For some reason you guys want to ignore the very premise of this thread and start talking about overall song production. If Dre or anyone else in the industry is taking credit for beats they didn't do there is nothing wrong with discussing that. Whether it was done legally or illegally. If you want to discuss the broader issue of song production versus beat production then at least put it in its proper context of this discussion. It has been said that Daz had signed off on some tracks and Dre got the credit for it, why is it wrong to point that out or question what other beats he may not have created that was attributed to him? What I'm seeing here is the same thing I see in Train of Thought, some of you guys don't want to know the truth.So no, I don't know what beats Dre has done on his own and despite the back and forth none of us do. To say that a beat sounds like Dre doesn't really mean anything. You can go to youtube now and see a million types of beats that beat producers make that sound just like some other beat producer. The fact that Dre has always had someone with him from the Straight Outta Compton days, the drastic change in sound from the first to the second NWA album and other examples I listed in my previous post makes me wonder exactly what his role is in creating beats. There was never a drastic change in dre's sound, but rather a natural evolution and progression in style.. But it all connects, if u listen to each album one after the other, you can hear the growth
Quote from: eyeball on January 12, 2016, 10:16:49 AMThose who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T. The boy can do it in his sleep. Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have. , If you go and read the person who made this thread's first two post he is clearly talking about Dre getting credit for beats he didn't make. For some reason you guys want to ignore the very premise of this thread and start talking about overall song production. If Dre or anyone else in the industry is taking credit for beats they didn't do there is nothing wrong with discussing that. Whether it was done legally or illegally. If you want to discuss the broader issue of song production versus beat production then at least put it in its proper context of this discussion. It has been said that Daz had signed off on some tracks and Dre got the credit for it, why is it wrong to point that out or question what other beats he may not have created that was attributed to him? What I'm seeing here is the same thing I see in Train of Thought, some of you guys don't want to know the truth.So no, I don't know what beats Dre has done on his own and despite the back and forth none of us do. To say that a beat sounds like Dre doesn't really mean anything. You can go to youtube now and see a million types of beats that beat producers make that sound just like some other beat producer. The fact that Dre has always had someone with him from the Straight Outta Compton days, the drastic change in sound from the first to the second NWA album and other examples I listed in my previous post makes me wonder exactly what his role is in creating beats.
Those who criticise Dre have obviously never produced a beat themselves, if they had they would know first hand exactly how hard it is to have a vision of the end product in the first place then select the right elements, place them correctly and mix them together to that level of crispness and polish that Dre has honed to a T. The boy can do it in his sleep. Of course he has had collaborators, he's like the hip hop Quincy Jones, a producers producer, but none of those that have worked with him have ever managed to create anything even half as good without him and thats where Dres genius lies. He can take a diamond in the rough and make the mfer shine and as any jeweller will tell you that is a talent that very few have.
the sound of NFL which would later be polished and improved on The Chronic & Doggystyle is also due to the fact that it's when Dre started working extensively with Colin Wolfe, who was a seasoned musician. Wolfe's interview which surfaced a few years ago is very insightful about it.I think the main problem was that at the end of the day, when the song said produced by Dre, with nothing else on it left a lot of the contributors pissed and like Dre was taking full credit for their work. Some were cool with it and thought it was part of a learning experience, some were pissed cause they thought they were the producer because they had worked on the song, and some were just disappointed to see them not credited and not compensated for it. The money aspect comes into play as well, because Death Row (and many other labels for that matter) were very shady when it comes to publishing rights and producing credits, and it wasn't so much Dre's responsibility as it was Suge's. Like for Who Got Some Gangsta Shit, Suge only wanted to credit Snoop for producing the song, and Snoop intervened and got Soopafly to be credited. Soopafly also co-produced every Daz produced song on AEOM but wasn't credited for it and was only paid by Daz, not the label. In an interview, one producer (can't seem to remember who, maybe Chris "The Glove" Taylor) said that he went to Dre to say that he hadn't been paid and credited and Dre told him he wasn't responsible for him, that Suge was taking care of it.In my opinion, the controversy stems from 1) some of these people's ego : they think they produced a song without realizing and at first understanding the concept (Daz, Warren G) 2) Dre's lack of communication with his collaborators which made it all seem shady for them (see the Glove's interview about his on and off working relationship with Dre on Ruthless, Death Row and Aftermath) 3) the lack of a just system of financial compensationThroughout the years, you heard Daz, Warren G and Big Hutch venting their frustration and other people like The Glove and Colin Wolfe going into detail how Dre worked with him. It seems to me the main problem was the lack of details in the credits, even though The Chronic's booklet is somehow detailed, they needed a song by song breakdown of who did what exactly and precisely ala RR&GB where they mentioned the keyboards by Daz & Soopafly, the percussion by Carl Butch Smalls and the guitar by Ricky Rouse or Shorty B or whoever... If Death Row had done that consistently (they did, at times, like when they said Afro Puffs was produced by Dre & Daz), I doubt such controversy would have arisen. But then again, it wasn't necessarily in their interest to do that.at the end of the day, I think the people that brag the least about being involved on The Chronic and Doggystyle and getting shit done, namely Chris The Glove and Colin Wolfe (Colin Wolfe wasn't involved in the making of Doggystyle) are the ones who were really responsible for most of the magic along with Dre, I love Daz & Warren G, but between rookie beat makers and seasoned producers and session musicians I think the latter are more likely to produce greatness. The Glove is still criminally underrated despite having his hands on a lot of classic records and lesser known genuinely good music over the years, while Daz has a lot of conspiracy theorists thinking he was the mastermind behind The Chronic & Doggystyle, lol.
Lmfao@taking anything suge says as credible And roflmao when it's pertaining to dre
Quote from: Sccit on January 12, 2016, 07:44:11 PMLmfao@taking anything suge says as credible And roflmao when it's pertaining to dre No shit. Not even Daz says he produced the whole Doggystyle.
Quote from: Jimmy H. on January 12, 2016, 08:59:08 PMQuote from: Sccit on January 12, 2016, 07:44:11 PMLmfao@taking anything suge says as credible And roflmao when it's pertaining to dre No shit. Not even Daz says he produced the whole Doggystyle. Well if he signed everything over to Dre then why would he? It's same as when people ghostwrite for others, they don't speak on it. I'm not sure how this works exactly but I assume there is like a confidentially agreement in place as well. Suge could be lying but just because he doesn't like Dre doesn't mean he is. Hell, he don't like Daz either. I assume that article is part of the reason why this thread was made.
Quote from: abusive on January 13, 2016, 05:39:14 AMQuote from: Jimmy H. on January 12, 2016, 08:59:08 PMQuote from: Sccit on January 12, 2016, 07:44:11 PMLmfao@taking anything suge says as credible And roflmao when it's pertaining to dre No shit. Not even Daz says he produced the whole Doggystyle. Well if he signed everything over to Dre then why would he? It's same as when people ghostwrite for others, they don't speak on it. I'm not sure how this works exactly but I assume there is like a confidentially agreement in place as well. Suge could be lying but just because he doesn't like Dre doesn't mean he is. Hell, he don't like Daz either. I assume that article is part of the reason why this thread was made.What we tryin to say is that somethin is wrong wit u if u seriously believe that
Quote from: Sccit on January 13, 2016, 10:17:03 AMQuote from: abusive on January 13, 2016, 05:39:14 AMQuote from: Jimmy H. on January 12, 2016, 08:59:08 PMQuote from: Sccit on January 12, 2016, 07:44:11 PMLmfao@taking anything suge says as credible And roflmao when it's pertaining to dre No shit. Not even Daz says he produced the whole Doggystyle. Well if he signed everything over to Dre then why would he? It's same as when people ghostwrite for others, they don't speak on it. I'm not sure how this works exactly but I assume there is like a confidentially agreement in place as well. Suge could be lying but just because he doesn't like Dre doesn't mean he is. Hell, he don't like Daz either. I assume that article is part of the reason why this thread was made.What we tryin to say is that somethin is wrong wit u if u seriously believe that Don't start with the person attacks. If you disagree then you just disagree. I'm not here to go back and forth with calling names and ish.
^I think what Suge was talking about was making the beats that would be used for the songs, not producing the songs.
Anyone who think other people produced Doggystyle, go and listen to those Tony Green interviews.