It's May 02, 2024, 05:40:25 PM
This was a big bite off of Eminem's "DETROIT vs. EVERYBODY"Eminem called his album that because he was referring to the Detroit Pistons in 1989, the Bad Boys, when it was Detroit vs. Everybody -- and the general feel about the Motor City in that it is a hard working Factory Town that builds the Cars that Nobody Respects (Kid Rock, D-12, Big Sean plays off that too)
LA has a lot in common with Detroit in that nobody respects Los Angeles West Coast Rap like nobody respects Detroit's image and work ethic
Quote from: love33 on March 02, 2017, 10:17:41 PMThis was a big bite off of Eminem's "DETROIT vs. EVERYBODY"Eminem called his album that because he was referring to the Detroit Pistons in 1989, the Bad Boys, when it was Detroit vs. Everybody -- and the general feel about the Motor City in that it is a hard working Factory Town that builds the Cars that Nobody Respects (Kid Rock, D-12, Big Sean plays off that too)Nah, it was only a song. Quote from: love33 on March 02, 2017, 10:17:41 PMLA has a lot in common with Detroit in that nobody respects Los Angeles West Coast Rap like nobody respects Detroit's image and work ethicWhat the fuck are you talkin' about?
There was a period in West Coast Rap after Pac died where the Mainstream Media wasn't respecting West Coast artists -- the media faded out artists like Mack 10 and Luniz on MTV and brought in Will Smith "Just The Two Of Us", Puffy & Mase dancing around in spacesuits because of Pac & B.I.G. deaths -- the West was basically blackballed for years (except for a couple Dre artists like Xzibit, The Game) -- All the other west artists like Sly Boogy, Mitchy Slick, Crooked I, Eastwood, & Bishop Lamont were all shelved -- it wasn't until Kendrick Lamar, Tabs, second revival of E-40, Wale, YG, Nef The Pharoah, Tyler The Creator, Ty Dolla $ign, and The Game being consistent did the West make its return
Quote from: love33 on March 11, 2017, 11:53:25 PMThere was a period in West Coast Rap after Pac died where the Mainstream Media wasn't respecting West Coast artists -- the media faded out artists like Mack 10 and Luniz on MTV and brought in Will Smith "Just The Two Of Us", Puffy & Mase dancing around in spacesuits because of Pac & B.I.G. deaths -- the West was basically blackballed for years (except for a couple Dre artists like Xzibit, The Game) -- All the other west artists like Sly Boogy, Mitchy Slick, Crooked I, Eastwood, & Bishop Lamont were all shelved -- it wasn't until Kendrick Lamar, Tabs, second revival of E-40, Wale, YG, Nef The Pharoah, Tyler The Creator, Ty Dolla $ign, and The Game being consistent did the West make its return It was less of a regional bias as it was a shift in musical trends. Hardcore rap was getting fazed out for lighter, more flashier music. Gangsta rap had been growing and growing since 1988 and when Pac and Big both died, rap just wasn't as in to celebrating murder as it once was. Even in New York, there was a time when DMX couldn't get a deal because people didn't want grimy rap, they wanted what Puffy was doing. By the late 90's, it flipped a little. DMX was huge and Puffy's second album flopped hard. And the West wasn't basically blackballed. Dre did the Up in Smoke Tour which was a national tour that had nearly all West Coast artists (except Eminem), he also had 2001, Snoop had the Eastsidaz, there was talk of NWA reunions, Nate Dogg was scoring features on hit songs, Xzibit was blowing up. You can make Dre the argument for Xzibit being the exception but the guy got on and built momentum off his. If it was only about Dre, it would have been magic for everyone affiliated but it wasn't. Xzibit was neither an Aftermath artist nor signed to Interscope so he didn't even had that machine behind him. What it was was the familiar West Coast acts (and the people they were putting on) were continuing to sell records. And nobody fazed out Mack 10 after Biggie died. His albums were still selling consistently well with the singles getting airplay and Priority even gave him his own label imprint plus he briefly had a movie deal. The Luniz weren't blackballed. They simply had one bankable hit single.
Great insight, I think it's true people weren't feeling gangsta rap from the record label higher ups and that trickled down into the playlists to create that temperament you described in 1998-1999, when rap was changing.
Quote from: love33 on March 13, 2017, 11:31:23 PMGreat insight, I think it's true people weren't feeling gangsta rap from the record label higher ups and that trickled down into the playlists to create that temperament you described in 1998-1999, when rap was changing. I think you are putting far too much of that on record label decision-making and not paying enough attention to the reality of the cyclical nature of popular culture. It's not the white guys in suits who decide, "Okay, we don't like gangsta rap anymore". It's the consumer. You could see it starting to change long before Pac's death. Death Row's rise to peak was from about 1991-1996. That's five years. If you count in the Ruthless era when gangsta rap was becoming a media sensation, that's another three years. With Ruthless becoming a house divided, you had its three major players (Dre, Cube, Eazy) all splitting up to make their own records for different labels then you'd have other labels signing whatever was hot (Def Jam scooping up Warren G, other producers building funk-sampled sounds around hard-edged content, etc.) At some point, things got stagnant. You could see with Dre leaving that he was done with gangsta rap at that time and him declaring it dead in interviews affected how the consumer looked at it. Snoop was also moving in a different direction. Now, you combine that with the two biggest artists out there both dying and I think people just grew tired of it. Even if they had never been killed, I think musically, the consumers would have moved on if the sound stayed the same. It happens to every label and artist.
Dre's career was as good as dead in the Mainstream when he left Death Row, before Pac & BIG even died.
Did you watch that MTV Death Row cover I had in that other post? They said that he was finished and Suge was laughing how he sold his half for a dollar and he had all the masters.
In 91, Death Row never had an album, it wasn't until somewhere in the 3rd/4th quarter that they started spinning singles for Chronic hard on MTV (I remember this as a kid being in grade school) -- "...G' Thang" quickly became the biggest track in the industry, and the album hit rap upside the head.
The media pled guilty behind closed doors on Pac & BIG, and Suge pointed this out when they called him and told him to "Soften his lyrics" and he refused.
You're right, Dre went soft with "Aftermath Presents.. ", which is why it didn't sell like Dre was used to (1 million vs. what Dre normally sells).
If you told me they had something to replace it with... they didn't replace Death Row with techno, they replaced it with... RAP -- DMX, Cash Money, No Limit
They weren't West Coast G's, which is what they were trying to turn the light off on but 'Up In Smoke Tour' kept them distracted, but they kept making rap music, it was just marketed as non-gangsta and they went to the opposite side of the country back to the New York media market.
Like Suge said, he couldn't do it selling pop, he could only do it selling Death Row gangsta rap, which is true, which is why he put up those mad sales and brought his career back!
Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AMDre's career was as good as dead in the Mainstream when he left Death Row, before Pac & BIG even died. No, it wasn’t. He was starting over from scratch from a creative/business standpoint but he was still in a position to make things happen. His departure got him magazine covers. He was at the 1996 VMA’s doing interviews but left when Pac/Suge arrived. Interscope was backing him. He was still in a very high demand. He just hadn’t found his sound yet. While “Been There, Done That” was critically, a lukewarm record, it still got spins and Dre performed it as a musical guest on Saturday Night Live. Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AMDid you watch that MTV Death Row cover I had in that other post? They said that he was finished and Suge was laughing how he sold his half for a dollar and he had all the masters. You’re confusing perception with reality. Financially, giving up half of a multi-million-dollar company looks like a big “L” on the score card but the reality was Interscope had already secured him his own label deal, he had publishing rights on his music, and while the future of his career as a producer was uncertain, he wasn’t bankrupt and he wasn’t in a situation with the industry was no longer working with him. Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AM In 91, Death Row never had an album, it wasn't until somewhere in the 3rd/4th quarter that they started spinning singles for Chronic hard on MTV (I remember this as a kid being in grade school) -- "...G' Thang" quickly became the biggest track in the industry, and the album hit rap upside the head. Correction. It would actually have been 1992. Dre was still with NWA in 1991. By 1992, the legal deals were still being worked out. Death Row was supposed to sign a groundbreaking distribution deal with Sony that would have given them unprecedented control of their own catalog but Sony took it off the table once Eazy-E stepped in and threatened to sue any company that worked with Dre for interfering with a contracted artist. The “Deep Cover” deal happened before Interscope/Priority came in. This was still in the early days when Dick Griffey was going to have an ownership stake in Death Row and they were recording at Solar. When Sony dropped out, Interscope stepped in, negotiated with Eazy and Ruthless to free up Dre’s contract, and convinced Suge to drop Dick Griffey as a business partner. Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AM The media pled guilty behind closed doors on Pac & BIG, and Suge pointed this out when they called him and told him to "Soften his lyrics" and he refused. I can’t help but roll my eyes at this whole statement right here. The media? As if every single media conglomerate is just an individual entity that manifested itself into human form and called up Suge. Stop drinking the cool-aid, man. As far as Suge refusing to soften his lyrics, firstly, Suge is not a recording artist so he can’t claim ownership of lyrics. Secondly, in a Vibe article, released around the time of his prison sentencing, he admitted that he had agreed with C. DeLeroes Tucker that Death Row would no longer release albums with use of the “N” word on them. He later, of course, reneged, but this contradicts your theory that he refused to change the music. Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AM You're right, Dre went soft with "Aftermath Presents.. ", which is why it didn't sell like Dre was used to (1 million vs. what Dre normally sells). Now, you’re applying a contradictory logic. According to you, Death Row was “rocking the charts” with a double album that went gold, sold 400,000 copies, and didn’t have a single hit record. Aftermath put out a single-disc compilation that went platinum, sold a million copies, and had a moderately successful radio hit. They followed that up with another million copies, platinum plaque, and #1 chart position for The Firm project. A million copies is flopping but 800k on a double album is rocking the charts? Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AM If you told me they had something to replace it with... they didn't replace Death Row with techno, they replaced it with... RAP -- DMX, Cash Money, No LimitThey didn’t replace anything. The artists who were popular at Death Row (2Pac, Dre, Snoop) were still selling. When Death Row put out Tupac projects, they still sold. They just didn’t have any new stars that were making hits and they didn’t have the resources to properly build them up. Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AM They weren't West Coast G's, which is what they were trying to turn the light off on but 'Up In Smoke Tour' kept them distracted, but they kept making rap music, it was just marketed as non-gangsta and they went to the opposite side of the country back to the New York media market. They weren’t trying to turn the light off on anything. 2Pac. Snoop. Ice Cube. Dr. Dre. Coolio. Cypress Hill. All West Coast. All still getting mainstream play. It’s pretty simple logic here. The artists who stayed consistent still had a fan base who supported them. Death Row didn’t have a working relationship with any of their biggest stars so they sank. Simple as that. Quote from: love33 on March 17, 2017, 01:09:03 AM Like Suge said, he couldn't do it selling pop, he could only do it selling Death Row gangsta rap, which is true, which is why he put up those mad sales and brought his career back!Couldn’t do it selling pop? So prior to dropping “2001”, he didn’t put out a white rapper who sold millions of copies of his debut album, beat out Jennifer Lopez and Kid Rock for “Best New Artist” at the VMA’s, and was a regular guest on TRL? Are we implying that “My Name Is” was “Death Row gangsta rap”?
Couldn’t do it selling pop? So prior to dropping “2001”, he didn’t put out a white rapper who sold millions of copies of his debut album, beat out Jennifer Lopez and Kid Rock for “Best New Artist” at the VMA’s, and was a regular guest on TRL? Are we implying that “My Name Is” was “Death Row gangsta rap”?
No, it wasn’t. He was starting over from scratch from a creative/business standpoint but he was still in a position to make things happen.
When Sony dropped out, Interscope stepped in, negotiated with Eazy and Ruthless to free up Dre’s contract, and convinced Suge to drop Dick Griffey as a business partner.
he admitted that he had agreed with C. DeLeroes Tucker that Death Row would no longer release albums with use of the “N” word on them.
Yes, he put Eminem out, but Eminem's raps were just as hard or harder than any artist -- that second Eminem album was his hardest, and he was bashing everyone on that record and talking about choking his ex-girlfriend -- He sounds no different lyrically than any other artist on "Dr. Dre 2001" -- just hard raw rap.
A LOT of people said "Dre fell off" and "Dre went bitch" in 1996 thru 1998 when a lot of fans were siding with 2Pac/Suge on everything -- Dre addressed this in his "2001" album when he said "Haters say Dre fell off? How Nigga? My Last Album was The Chronic/ they say raps changed, they wanna know how I feel about it/"
Dre also said when he was working on his 3rd version of Detox around 2004-05 that he scrapped the whole album twice and is now re-recording it with a brand new concept, he mentioned that's its going to be like a "Hip-Hop Movie" with different characters -- A Crooked I track "Say Dr. Dre" leaked out that was rumored to be in accordance with it, as he was rumored to be in the Dre studio -- the track was "Say Dr. Dre" where Crooked I plays Dr. Dre on the track (he acts like he is Dr. Dre when he raps Dre's story) -- Dre said 64s, blunts, and khakis are played out and we already heard that, and he was doing something revolutionary, a completely different concept --
Dre tested the water with the Swizz Beatz track and a couple others and his sound on the "Compton" compilation but he never released "The Detox" which many say because he didn't want a bump on his resume (he has the 2 platinum solo albums, he doesn't want a low selling performer in his catalog) -- He made so much money on Beats by Dr Dre that he really had no motive to push music anymore --
I remembered hearing this that she asked him, but I didn't know he actually agreed to this at any point? If you listen to Dr. Dre Presents "The Aftermath" it sounds like a watered down version compared to what we're used to hearing with gangsta records, he definitely toned that record down -- Suge said Jimmy came to him personally and he met with Interscope and wanted a huge tone down. I think Suge may have said he wasn't going to use many curse words on the "Death Row Christmas" album when he talked to Deloris Tucker -- but I don't ever remember him having any agreement with her to tone it down.
But it is true the media wasn't in the mood to promote MC Eiht-like shoot-em-up records that we heard allover the radio in 1992.
Which is why you started seeing records like "Just the Two of Us", "Parents Just Don't Understand", and "I'm taking a trip down to Miami" from Will Smith -- that was a MAJOR shift from what we were used to hearing with rap music
then these conscious rappers like COMMON started getting phased in the tracklist then the "BLING BLING era" tookoff with Juvenile, Hot Boys, and Jermaine Dupri, Jay-z, and Busta Rhymes began to fill out the playlists that were once West-heavy Domino, Comptons Most Wanted, DRS, Ice Cube, Naughty By Nature, and the sound we were so used to hearing from the turn of the decade