Sccit, do u like Phil Jackson?

[TraceOneInfinite]

Pop quiz—what do Infinite (coming from the Midwest) and Sccit (from LA) have in common? 

Answer:  Phil Jackson 

KC doesn’t have a basketball team so we adopted the Bulls in the Jordan era and most all of their games were shown to us on WGN so we followed their every move in the Jordan era.

Then of course later Phil pretty much re-produced the same success in LA with your guy Kobe.

Anyway, I’m a big fan of Phil and currently re-reading for the second time his 11 Rings book (also loved Sacred Hoops) and was just curious your thoughts on the Zen Master and what it was like having him in LA all those years.  Because as much as we talk about Shaq and Kobe—the Zen Master was sort of like a star in his own right.

What you think?

[Sccit]

obviously

the greatest coach of all time

a big part of shaping MJ and Kobe into who they became

[TraceOneInfinite]

obviously

the greatest coach of all time

a big part of shaping MJ and Kobe into who they became

What do you think makes him a great coach?  And is there any Coach you think is better?

[Sccit]

What do you think makes him a great coach?  And is there any Coach you think is better?

what makes him great is the way he approaches basketball from a psychoanalytic perspective. his heightened spiritual awareness makes him A1 at managing egos and getting the best out of each individual .. the one coach who u could argue as being his equal would be pat riley

[TraceOneInfinite]

what makes him great is the way he approaches basketball from a psychoanalytic perspective. his heightened spiritual awareness makes him A1 at managing egos and getting the best out of each individual .. the one coach who u could argue as being his equal would be pat riley

Yeah but Riley isn’t a wise as Phil Jackson—I mean Phil comin’ at them with Zen and Ancient Wisdom from old Native American Tribes and shit—Riley can’t fucc with that.  Riley’s just your usual “hey guys play harder” type coach.  Which I never understood how coaches are considered great for saying cliches like “don’t give up”, “play hard”, “we must win”…

I think all coaches are saying a lot of the same shit it’s the ones that can keep the team focused, interested, and energized I suppose.  And Phil’s an interesting guy.

Oh, and Phil had da triangle

[Sccit]

Yeah but Riley isn’t a wise as Phil Jackson—I mean Phil comin’ at them with Zen and Ancient Wisdom from old Native American Tribes and shit—Riley can’t fucc with that.  Riley’s just your usual “hey guys play harder” type coach.  Which I never understood how coaches are considered great for saying cliches like “don’t give up”, “play hard”, “we must win”…

I think all coaches are saying a lot of the same shit it’s the ones that can keep the team focused, interested, and energized I suppose.  And Phil’s an interesting guy.

Oh, and Phil had da triangle

i don’t think u know much bout Riley

from an X’s and O’s standpoint, he’s unfuckwitable

also tremendous wit managing egos and known for his goat level practices

phil is the goat wit psychological warfare, no doubt.



cant argue against either

[TraceOneInfinite]

i don’t think u know much bout Riley

from an X’s and O’s standpoint, he’s unfuckwitable

also tremendous wit managing egos and known for his goat level practices

phil is the goat wit psychological warfare, no doubt.



cant argue against either

I know Riley has the ability to keep his team interested through a long season and gets them to play hard and physical 

[Sccit]

I know Riley has the ability to keep his team interested through a long season and gets them to play hard and physical

yes.. and also has everyone’s utmost respect, which is damn near an impossible feat as a head coach

really knows his basketball and what it takes to win .. like phil jackson, was a player in the 70s

he’s known for his grueling practices that kept his players in top shape

[TraceOneInfinite]

yes.. and also has everyone’s utmost respect, which is damn near an impossible feat as a head coach

really knows his basketball and what it takes to win .. like phil jackson, was a player in the 70s

he’s known for his grueling practices that kept his players in top shape

Yeah but “grueling practice” I mean any coach could do that they could just be like okay I’m going to push my players harder that’s what I mean about some coaches just say “play hard” “do more” anybody can say “play harder”—so that’s a part of coaching I don’t really get… but Phil’s methods I have a better grasp on I can understand why and how they work—I’m not doubting Riley and I definitely liked him as an analyst I’m just saying I don’t understand his coaching methods like I do Phil

[Sccit]

Yeah but “grueling practice” I mean any coach could do that they could just be like okay I’m going to push my players harder that’s what I mean about some coaches just say “play hard” “do more” anybody can say “play harder”—so that’s a part of coaching I don’t really get… but Phil’s methods I have a better grasp on I can understand why and how they work—I’m not doubting Riley and I definitely liked him as an analyst I’m just saying I don’t understand his coaching methods like I do Phil

the difference is… usually hard ass coaches who run their players to the ground lose their players’ attention fast… players turn on them as those methods typically have repercussions that are not met well by those being worked hard…. but wit riley it was a different story… all the players always respected him .. u can’t argue wit the results.

he’s also up there with Phil as far as managing egos and personalities ..

[TraceOneInfinite]

the difference is… usually hard ass coaches who run their players to the ground lose their players’ attention fast… players turn on them as those methods typically have repercussions that are not met well by those being worked hard…. but wit riley it was a different story… all the players always respected him .. u can’t argue wit the results.

he’s also up there with Phil as far as managing egos and personalities ..

Okay then what you are saying is he gets the most out of players.  But still... how?  Like okay, they respect him so much that he can push them harder in practice then other coaches.  Okay, why?  Why do they respect him more.   I still don't get why Riley is a great coach.  I know he's a great coach, I'm just saying I don't get why.

And yes he is good at managing egos and personalities but again... how and why?   

...To Compare..

I think Phil Jackson managed the egos on the Bulls by using Jerry Krause as a target.  That wasn't fair to Jerry, because Jerry was is the one who hired Phil when Phil didn't really have that deep of a resume.  Then Phil stabbed him in the back.  But it was all worth it you can't argue with the results.  Even Jerry was happy in the end with the results.  But I feel like Phil filter all their negative emotions Jerry's way.  It would sort of be like rather than having Shaq and Kobe go at it -- turn their frustrations to the GM

[Sccit]

Okay then what you are saying is he gets the most out of players.  But still... how?  Like okay, they respect him so much that he can push them harder in practice then other coaches.  Okay, why?  Why do they respect him more.   I still don't get why Riley is a great coach.  I know he's a great coach, I'm just saying I don't get why.

And yes he is good at managing egos and personalities but again... how and why?   

...To Compare..

I think Phil Jackson managed the egos on the Bulls by using Jerry Krause as a target.  That wasn't fair to Jerry, because Jerry was is the one who hired Phil when Phil didn't really have that deep of a resume.  Then Phil stabbed him in the back.  But it was all worth it you can't argue with the results.  Even Jerry was happy in the end with the results.  But I feel like Phil filter all their negative emotions Jerry's way.  It would sort of be like rather than having Shaq and Kobe go at it -- turn their frustrations to the GM

watch winning time .. an hbo show about the 80s lakers

to sum it up a bit more, from an ego managing perspective, paul westhead (the previous coach who riley was an assistant to) was starting to lose his team .. he was a real “my way or the highway” type of coach who did things on his terms only and wanted the players to fall in line.. to the point where some of the players started to feel so isolated that even magic johnson eventually requested a trade…. but once that happened, westhead was fired and pat riley had a certain aura about him that made him very relatable. he was more willing to listen to the players while still maintaining that toughness and commanding that high level of respect .. that’s what made him great in managing egos.

and from a basketball standpoint, he took the run and gun showtime offense that he and westhead were running to another level .. and it really revolutionized basketball. because if u watch basketball today, every team runs a version of that offense. but in the 80s, it was the lakers thing and pat riley was one of the early orchestrators who perfected it.

[TraceOneInfinite]

watch winning time .. an hbo show about the 80s lakers

to sum it up a bit more, from an ego managing perspective, paul westhead (the previous coach who riley was an assistant to) was starting to lose his team .. he was a real “my way or the highway” type of coach who did things on his terms only and wanted the players to fall in line.. to the point where some of the players started to feel so isolated that even magic johnson eventually requested a trade…. but once that happened, westhead was fired and pat riley had a certain aura about him that made him very relatable. he was more willing to listen to the players while still maintaining that toughness and commanding that high level of respect .. that’s what made him great in managing egos.

and from a basketball standpoint, he took the run and gun showtime offense that he and westhead were running to another level .. and it really revolutionized basketball. because if u watch basketball today, every team runs a version of that offense. but in the 80s, it was the lakers thing and pat riley was one of the early orchestrators who perfected it.

Winning Time seemed wack—like it was made for women and casual fans.  It’s actually a serious sports show?

…and fast breaks?  Okay great, but he wasn’t doing fast breaks in NY and Miami

[Sccit]

Winning Time seemed wack—like it was made for women and casual fans.  It’s actually a serious sports show?

…and fast breaks?  Okay great, but he wasn’t doing fast breaks in NY and Miami

watch it .. it’s a good show. definitely not for women.


that’s another great thing about riley.. he was able to adjust his style based on personnel .. so in new york and miami, he adjusted to a more defensive oriented game. most coaches insist on their own style regardless of personnel, but Riley was a wizard with the fluidity and knowing which team needed what.

[TraceOneInfinite]

watch it .. it’s a good show. definitely not for women.


that’s another great thing about riley.. he was able to adjust his style based on personnel .. so in new york and miami, he adjusted to a more defensive oriented game. most coaches insist on their own style regardless of personnel, but Riley was a wizard with the fluidity and knowing which team needed what.

Yeah I mean props to Riley for being able to change styles, but I'm definitely more of a Phil Jackson/Tex Winter or Don Nelson type of guy who would want to run my style of basketball wherever I went and then I'd try to find guys who would fit that style. 

Like to use another sport as an example Bill Walsh is my favorite NFL coach.  So Jackson is my favorite NBA coach and then Bill Walsh my favorite NFL coach.

So Bill Walsh had his system the West Coast Offense and then even when his team was 1-15 his first years with the 9ers he didn't give a fucc cause he was implementing his god damn system.  Then he just kept pushing it till he got the right players that could run his system.  That style makes more sense to me.

Again, I like Riley as a person, an analyst, and there is no denying what a great coach he is.  I use these coaches as inspiration in the work that I do as a teacher.  And some I can gleen knowledge from like Jackson and Walsh—but others I study and I get nothing from them. 

I have the same problem with Bill Belicheck of the Patriots.  I've studied him a lot trying to gleen anything useful from the guy and never gotten anything I can use.  Obviously a great coach but nothing I could get from him.