SUGA FREE - NO MERCY (New Album Coming September 2026)

[Nsykac Steel]

Not sure what you're trying to say here dude, but I'll take a guess: Are you saying that the same way we differ on 'creative', we also differ on 'fall off' — so whether Quik's fallen off is just a matter of definition? That's different than what you said though - you amputated the analogy and stapled a flat assertion onto it: "DJ Quik hasn't" lol. But I'll waive the missing connective tissue and grant you the benefit of the argument... just so I can tell you why it's still problematic lol.

Your whole position rests on the claim that "fall off" and "creative" are definition-dependent... That I'm just using idiosyncratic definitions, and under a different (equally valid) definition, Quik is innovating rather than declining. That's a relativist move dude: it's all in how you define the terms.

But then your actual statement — "DJ Quik hasn't [fallen off]" — is stated as a flat, objective fact. The contradiction is staring everyone in the face: if our whole disagreement genuinely reduces to differing definitions, then you have no more standing to assert "he hasn't fallen off" than I do to assert "he has." Relativism about the term cuts both ways my man. You can't say "this is purely a matter of definition" and then, in the same breath, declare one side of the definitional divide to be the true one. If it's definitional, there's no fact of the matter to assert; if there's a fact of the matter to assert, then it isn't merely definitional.

So you wanna have it both ways: use definitional relativism to neutralize my claim, then quietly abandon that relativism to plant a flag of your own. Logic doesn't work that way dude lol.

Sigh! Allow me to retort, Dj Quik has not fallen off as a producer. You can disagree; it isn't that deep.

[O.E.800]

Sigh! Allow me to retort, Dj Quik has not fallen off as a producer. You can disagree; it isn't that deep.

Doesn't seem that deep to me either dude lol. Quality-in-the-abstract is always gonna be contestable. Bottom line for me is: Quik had a defined, beloved signature and he abandoned it. The work that replaced it is worse by the standard that made him matter to his audience.

[Rudki]

Doesn't seem that deep to me either dude lol. Quality-in-the-abstract is always gonna be contestable. Bottom line for me is: Quik had a defined, beloved signature and he abandoned it. The work that replaced it is worse by the standard that made him matter to his audience.

FACTS.

And I've been a Quik fan since the 90's.

[Soopafly DPGC]

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

If a producer makes great songs, but never releases anything for people to hear, is he really a great producer?

[h2k4]

I disagree dude lol.

What he was doing before he started making carnival music was creative. The guy carved out his own lane of Gangsta rap, produced a bunch of R&B (from Danny Boy to Janet Jackson), and even produced east coast shit for Jay-Z. You call what he's doing now creative? lol. There's no comparison dude lol.

The issue is you and I have different definitions of what the word "creative" means lol. And they couldn't be further apart lol.

I can appreciate when someone like Quik is willing to branch out and experiment but I can also realize that it's not good, lol. He is responsible for his own downfall in production but then complains when he isn't mentioned in the same vein as Dre. Not that Dre is producing/ mixing classics but he can give you atleast one dope beat every now and then.

[O.E.800]

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

If a producer makes great songs, but never releases anything for people to hear, is he really a great producer?

Lol, just because you missed the party doesn't mean it didn't happen dude lol.

Sound is a pressure wave propagating through a medium. That exists whether or not an ear is present. Because that's how physics works dude. But asking whether an unreleased producer is great is like asking whether someone is a champion who never entered a race. The answer is no, and it's no by definition, not by physics.

What's next, the chicken or the egg? LOL

[Soopafly DPGC]

Lol, just because you missed the party doesn't mean it didn't happen dude lol.

Sound is a pressure wave propagating through a medium. That exists whether or not an ear is present. Because that's how physics works dude. But asking whether an unreleased producer is great is like asking whether someone is a champion who never entered a race. The answer is no, and it's no by definition, not by physics.

What's next, the chicken or the egg? LOL

But that's the thing, in order to be 'good', you have to hold up against a sample size of your peers and be better than them.  It's not a 'physics' thing where if a producer does A, B, and C to a song, then it's a great song.  There's production coming out now, where if it were done in 96, would be garbage.  But compared to what's being released today, even average songs sound great. 

Take Kurupt's new song GUNNA.  Sounds decent, people are excited about it, saying it was produced well.  If this song was on Streetz Iz A Mutha in 96, it'd be one of the worst songs on the album and people would say the production sucked. 

So I think absolutely releasing music and allowing people to actually hear your production work and make judgement based on that compared to what's out there makes the songs one produce great or not.  DJ Quik may be producing the best songs of his life, BUT no one gets to hear them, so no one knows for sure.  He could be producing absolute garbage now.  The fact that he is afraid to release anything in the past 10+ years tells me at a minimum, he doesn't have the confidence in himself like he used to have.  So the people who have heard his latest songs probably aren't giving him great feedback about them.  The most recent solo song he released "Class" was total garbage. 

Again, I love Quik, his music is amazing, but it's hard to counter the argument that he has fallen off.  I hope he releases an amazing album and puts all that to rest once and for all, but for every year goes by that he doesn't do that, just reinforces that notion.  He announces an album, releases a song, it sucks, then he cancels the album.  Rinse and repeat every few years. 

[O.E.800]

But that's the thing, in order to be 'good', you have to hold up against a sample size of your peers and be better than them.  It's not a 'physics' thing where if a producer does A, B, and C to a song, then it's a great song.  There's production coming out now, where if it were done in 96, would be garbage.  But compared to what's being released today, even average songs sound great. 

Take Kurupt's new song GUNNA.  Sounds decent, people are excited about it, saying it was produced well.  If this song was on Streetz Iz A Mutha in 96, it'd be one of the worst songs on the album and people would say the production sucked. 

So I think absolutely releasing music and allowing people to actually hear your production work and make judgement based on that compared to what's out there makes the songs one produce great or not.  DJ Quik may be producing the best songs of his life, BUT no one gets to hear them, so no one knows for sure.  He could be producing absolute garbage now.  The fact that he is afraid to release anything in the past 10+ years tells me at a minimum, he doesn't have the confidence in himself like he used to have.  So the people who have heard his latest songs probably aren't giving him great feedback about them.  The most recent solo song he released "Class" was total garbage. 

Again, I love Quik, his music is amazing, but it's hard to counter the argument that he has fallen off.  I hope he releases an amazing album and puts all that to rest once and for all, but for every year goes by that he doesn't do that, just reinforces that notion.  He announces an album, releases a song, it sucks, then he cancels the album.  Rinse and repeat every few years.

Seems like you're agreeing but I think you're conflating two questions: 1. Does unreleased work count as "great" at all? (which is my definitional point). And 2: Can we know whether someone is still great without released evidence? (which is your peer-comparison point).

[Soopafly DPGC]

Seems like you're agreeing but I think you're conflating two questions: 1. Does unreleased work count as "great" at all? (which is my definitional point). And 2: Can we know whether someone is still great without released evidence? (which is your peer-comparison point).

1. I do think unreleased work could qualify as great....take a lot of 2pac's unreleased work.  BUT, it does need to be heard at some point.  With Quik, he has so much stuff in the vault that will never get released or heard, so it's hard to say in these last 10 years what he's been doing.  The bit he's released has not been great, so based on that assumption, someone could say he fell off because we never got to hear the 'good stuff'. 

2.  People can be great, but there has to be some released evidence.  Based on Quik's history, we know he's great.  Is he still great now that he's pushing 60?  That's the debatable point we're at now.  I don't think anyone here is questioning Quik's place in music history and his talent.  I don't know why it's any shock that people feel these producers have fell off.  As we age, our brains and body slow down.  These producers are susceptible to health and mental decline just like anyone else.  Of course he's not as sharp as he was 30 years ago.  That's human nature.  20 years from now are you still going to be saying Quik hasn't fallen off??  You can say someone has fallen off from when they were at the top of their game, yet still enjoy their music and think they make good songs.  That's where i'm at with Quik.  I still enjoy his music, but i don't think he's ever going to make another Safe and Sound or Rhythm-Al-ism.  That ship has sailed.  Just like I don't think Dre is ever going to make something on par with Chronic or C2001 ever again and that's fine and expected.